Topic #9. Black men attracted to overweight white women?
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1. Black men attracted to overweight white women?
Tue, Sep 28, 1999 - 11:39 PM/EST
isha

Where I live (in California), a large percentage of black male/white female couples consist of an overweight white woman and an average sized black man. I would say, in my experience, this is about 60% or more. I am curious to learn if this is the case in other parts of the country. I am also interested to find out your opinions about why this is the case. What do you think?

Black men in this group, how many of you can say that you find large white women attractive, and why?

2. not sure what to think
Wed, Sep 29, 1999 - 8:30 AM/EST
jess

When I first read this message I was a bit offended, I think mainly because I am always hit with this stereotype (fat WW, "normal" AA man). I am 5 feet tall and weight about 125--so I am not fat but I am not thin either. What I have found is this: white men think I am FAT. They subscribe to the eurocentric model of beauty with thin hips and teeny thighs, a flat butt, and small, barely existant breasts. I, on the other hand, have big thighs(but they are muscular), a round butt, big breasts and hips with a small waist. In other words--a perfect hour-glass figure. BUt AA men tend to think I am fine just the way I am. My boyfriend wants me to put on a bit more weight--something you will almost never hear a white man request! AA men are raised to appreciate womens' bodies in all shapes and sizes, for the most part--and this is quite unlike what goes on in the white community. It's funny because no one really freaks out when they see an AA man with a big AA woman. But put him with a big WW and there's always a problem.

Isha, I am not sure what you mean, so I don't want to overreact, but what do you mean by big? Do you mean obese or just a bit chubby? Would it bother you as much if the woman was AA?

We get mad at AA men for subscribing to the european standards of beauty, but what if he finds a WW that doesn't fit that mold either?

3. Topic #9
Wed, Sep 29, 1999 - 1:13 PM/EST
bostondal

Response to Isha

I think you are way off base! In the East,I do not see a large number of fat white women with "normal" sized black men! I think your theory is ridiculous. Usually, your thoughts are articulate and thought provoking. But, this theory is simply HOGWASH and, as a white woman(normal size) married to a black man for 25 years(normal size), I find your theory makes no sense whatsoever. Nobody asked, just my opinion........

4. wieght is heavy
Wed, Sep 29, 1999 - 2:58 PM/EST
midnitechild

i'm sorry i don't think isha's observation is offbase, and is certainly not something at which people should get offended or take personally. i'm aware that weight is a profound emotional issue in this society (as is race), but it does have different cultural meanings and is a perfectly valid discussion when tackling differences.

it is a fact that wwomen disproportionately suffer from eating disorders more than bwomen.

throughout history there have been a few "freedoms" that bwomen have benefited from, largely because they were until recently considered inappropriate for middle class wwomen. besides not being obsessed with body image, participation in sports, having a job jump into mind.

but bfolk aren't always on the possitive side of this issue. for instance, dietary habits of black folk usually include higher levels of saturated fat and other substances that make them susceptable to high blood pressure and similar medical conditions.

and bwomen's tendency to carry more weight becomes another lever with which bwomen can be defined as unattractive by society. and so often we are not talking about anything that approaches being overweight, much less obesity.

this is something often pointed to by bwomen as being a double standard. the assumption is that these bmen wouldn't be with this larger woman if she was black. it would be rediculous to say that this has never happened, but it would be equally rediculous to say that it always happens.

having lived much of my (race) concious life on both coasts i'm tempted to say that i see isha's observation more on the west coast than i do here (at least in new york city). but i see interracial couples out there more than i see here anyway, so it might just be perception.

5. weight is still heavy
Wed, Sep 29, 1999 - 3:01 PM/EST
midnitechild

personally, i'm a contradiction, because while i'm appalled by society's worshipping of anarexic models, i am attracted to slimmer body types. in part, it is that i'm a small person and as a male i've struggled with being with someone significantly taller or larger than myself. also, i think because of my profession, i'm surrounded by thinner, athletic, healthy bodies, so that becomes what i find beautiful (since i'm not a ballet dancer, i'm not usually around anarexic ones).

but on the other hand i am by far the smallest person in my family. both my older sisters and my mother are larger women. but i find them very beautiful as long as they remain heathy.

6. Black Men and Weight
Wed, Sep 29, 1999 - 4:22 PM/EST

I am sorry, Isha's question is a valid one. I think instead of imagining that the question implies something negative about white women, I think it says something positive about AA men. I have been many different sizes in my lifetime -- from a size 4 to a 22. One thing I can say is that AA men of all shapes, sizes, ages, education and income levels have been able to appreciate me for the attractive woman that I am, whatever my size. I cannot always say the same for most white men, with the expection of my man! It has been my experience that beauty is defined a multitude of ways for black men and white men have a tendency to define it according to size first and foremost. I think that is a problem for the members of the thin population who are unattached. They look at the overweight person and say to themselves "I look better than that -- how come he is with her when he could be with somebody like me?" Well, I am here to tell all the thin folks out there -- being thin makes you thin -- it doesn't make you pretty and it certainly doesn't make you a nice person. Maybe those fat white women are the pretty, kind, sensitive, fun-loving type that those AA men just can't get enough of! If there is one thing I hate more than racial prejudice, it is size prejudice. People wake up!!! You are simply exchanging one prejudice for another. When you make assumptions about someone based solely on their appearance, you are engaging in prejudicial behavior. To the white women in the discussion group, this reference was to obese women (like me), not normal-sized women like the majority of you, so Jess and others, don't take it personal. That was a size slur, not a racial one.

7. continued
Wed, Sep 29, 1999 - 4:31 PM/EST

Editors note: I tried to correct the spelling error in my previous post, but it didn't get changed. The sentence should have read " I cannot always say the same for white men (with the exception of my man)".

Thanks,

The Spicey One

8. overweight
Wed, Sep 29, 1999 - 9:05 PM/EST

Being a white woman and somewhat overweight I just have to say something. My husband makes me feel so beautiful just like I am. sometimes I think that is a downfall. Although we are working together now on our diets and plan to add excercise once my knee is healed, I could probably stay just like I am. He says it is not what I look like but who I am. When I dress up in nice clothes he shows how much he appreciates me and I feel so wonderful. My first husband wouldn't have much to do with me if I even got a little over weight. My daughters husband has pushed her away and all he does is talk about how overweight she is. Which makes it worse. (they are both white) My husband agreed with apricot spice that this is trading one predjudice for another. all the exterior things have nothing to do with what is on the inside. But health is also important if we want to live long enough to enjoy life with your mate.

9. Fat is not a 4 letter word
Wed, Sep 29, 1999 - 11:30 PM/EST
davidms

I recently had the opportunity to attend a thesis presentation at my alma mater in social work. One of the students completed her thesis on women's body image satisfaction across ethnic groups. Black women had the greatest satisfaction with their body images regardless of wieght or size. White women had the least satisfaction. Asian women and Latinas fell somwhere in between.

Studies have shown that men are more visually biased than women when discerning physcial attraction in a mate. Women are more biased toward social status. Though these are generalities and do not speak of individaul experiences, they do reflect patterns of behavior. Evolutionary biologists believe that there may be biological drives explaining this.

Whatever the origins of these perceptions, those who are invested in the attraction of men (straight women and gay men) have traditionally been more insecure with their body images and have a greater tendency toward eating disorders. I would like to assume that straight women and gay men could simply base their self images soley on their own perceptions, but I beleive this is unrealistic. (I also wish straight men could learn to define their masculinity outside of their social status.) It would be naive to assume cultural realities would not affect definitions of attractiveness. Research had shown that there are some universal traits that are considered highly masculine or feminine, but that various cultures will cosmetically exagerate certain physical traits in ways that other cultures may find unattrative.

Attraction is a wild animal. Trying to place a right and wrong on it can only lead to taking away its passion. And for those who have been in love, I'm not sure we're ready to make that sacrifice.

10. weight issue
Thu, Sep 30, 1999 - /EST
isha

Thanks to all of you who responded, and so quickly! Let me just say that it is clear to me by your responses that this goes on a whole lot more over here in California than it does in other places. I sure wasn't trying to offend anyone. I don't have any "problem" with overweight white women. I am 5'2" and have been everywhere between 125 and 165 !!! I am a healthy woman, not obese, but very muscular because I am a soccer player, and I just wanted to hear some opinions about the reasons black men are more attracted to large white women than white men are. Sorry if I offended anyone. Thanks so much to apricotspice, I really enjoyed reading your posts.

11. large women with average men
Thu, Sep 30, 1999 - 10:40 AM/EST
finewoman

i think this discussion is interesting as it brings up alot of emotions especially for women. i have noticed that black men like larger women and i think this is true for black women as well as white. i, being a healthy, fit large woman find this to be a big part of the mutual, attraction towards black men. i am 5 9" and 165 and am in shape and find that non-white men usually love my appearance. but occasionally a white man will find me appealing as well. i think this is because of our conditioning and the media brainwashing that gives the standard of 14 year old skinny models as the norm. it is advertised everywhere and alot of men grow up with mothers who adhere to this norm by starving themselves to death and over-excercising. so they look for this in a mate. in the black and latin culture the mothers are often larger and possibly overweight so this becomes admired and accepted. i actually enjoy the admiration non-white men have for my body and i feel that whatever works, go for it. my white women friends often ask me why i am always going out with black men and i realize it is because there is a mutual attraction that works, and part of this is due to my body.

i live in nyc by the way and see lots of interracial couples and do not see many overweight white women with black men, i actually see mostly body types that are compatible together more than anything else. i think it is a sign of maturity when a man of any race can accept that a woman has curves and is supposed to be womanly instead of look like a little girl. but that is just a matter of taste...

12. The Weight Issue
Thu, Sep 30, 1999 - 8:52 PM/EST

Isha:

Thanks for your compliment on the posts. I kind of agonize over them if you want to know the truth! (It's my OCD kicking in :o)!) You did not offend me -- the idea of someone thinking that size should be a barrier to love offends me. Besides, it never is just one character trait that inspires one person to love another. That is the beauty of this thing called love.

Apricotspice

Pamie:

I didn't intend to imply that a person should neglect their health and I hope you didn't take it that way. The problem for me is that I wish more men were like your husband (and my honey) who are able to appreciate that beauty is defined in many ways. I am fortunate in the sense that I have always been healthy, except when I was engaging in some pretty dangerous starvation diets to try to make myself more attractive to men as a teenager. As a result, I slowed my metabolism to a crawl and constantly have to battle a weight problem. I believe if we were less critical and more accepting of ourselves, we would not engage in dangerous eating behaviors that result in a serious health problems and lifelong struggles with obesity. I have lost 32 pounds recently. I still have a long way to go, but having a supportive partner in your life makes that struggle much easier to bear. I know in my heart that Jeff thinks I am beautiful as I am. But I also want to be able to be healthy enough to someday bear and successfully rear his children, so my health is important to me. He encourages me to do whatever I need to do to be the very best person I can be. I can't help but wonder if maybe the unconditional love and support that you and I receive from our partners is the magical piece of this weight loss puzzle that we needed to successfully attack this monster known as obesity. I wish you luck in your personal endeavors to beat down that big, bad beast.

Love,

Apricotspice

13. the tyranny of weight
Fri, Oct 1, 1999 - 8:40 AM/EST
jess

I must say that I have have also struggled with my weight my whole life, and that my mother is a "functional anorexic" (in that she has been one for 30 plus years and manages to live but sees her control of her life thru her own slow starvation). I learned at a young age from my mother that food could ruin your whole life, and it's taken me a long time to get over my mother thinking that I am out of control in general if I am a few pounds heavier. So, couple the weight issue with an issue like race and I am bound to overreact. My apologies, Isha.

I think another factor is that here, in the DC area, there is a stereotype of the kind of women that do date black men. And that is the "unsavory" white woman (overweight, uneducated, and unclean) that gets black men by trying to be black. It's very upsetting, seeing these women act and talk and dress in a certain way just because they want to fit in. They "straighen" their already straight hair with curling irons to approximate the look of AA hair that has been straightened!!!! To me it's like the upper middle class white kids listening to rap, wearing FUBU and Hilfiger, saying "word" and thinking they are real gang-bangers. Anyone else witnessed this MESS?

14. what a mess it is!!!
Sat, Oct 2, 1999 - 10:28 AM/EST
finewoman

wow i have neever heard of white women doing that, dressing and acting black to attract black men? that is pretty scary stuff. that is also a class thing. i think class and race often get mixed up and there are definite blurs that exist that get misinterpreted. in nyc i have never seen a white woman acting as you mentioned above excpet among a very low class, almost street culture. but this is usually a woman who is uneducated and is attracted to the same in a man. so, to me, this is a matter of class not race. these women which i have occassionally noticed, are mostly drug addicts or living on the street.

as far as upper class white kids wanting to fit into the black culture i think they should be able to do whatever they want! why shouldn't they be allowed to listen to rap music or wear fubu clothes? that is ridiculous. as if being hip should be reserved for black kids only, this is just another form of racism. i think black people need to check themselves when they get ruffled because white people have adopted some of their mannerisms and ways. it is bound to happen as boundaries fade and as cultures intermix and i think it's about time. it's like saying blsck people are the only ones who know how to dance. that has always made me so angry. i go to a club and can dance like any black person there and i get all these comment, "who taught you how to move like that, there must be some black in your background" as if dancing soulfully was something only people of color are expected to do.

i think we have to be careful of stereotyping groups of people whether it be because of color, class or gender. it should be okay for anyone to do whatever they feel comfortable doing as long as they are not breaking the law or hurting anyone.

15. interracial marriages.
Sat, Oct 2, 1999 - 2:32 PM/EST

Isha I did not take offense at what you said. What I should have said was we should stop assuming why a person is overweight. It is not always an overeating problem. Why do we think about things like this. It is judgement because other people don't live up to our expectations. Accepting people for who they are, unconditionly, makes a big difference in their lives. I have a friend who doesn't seem to approve of my weight yet she eats tons of sugar. candy, high fat diet yet she is about the size of a toothpick. I would not be able to get out of the house if I ate like she did. She is now starting to have some health problems. I am actually healthier than her.

To me looking at people because of weight, race, disability or how they dress or where they come from is just another form of predjudice.

Also I agree with finewoman. Music, clothes, or any kind of material thing does not belong to just one race or class of people it belongs to all. Unless there is racial slurs like I have heard then it becomes one races music and to me that is wrong. I went to my husbands family for a holiday. My nephew was playing racially based music against whites. I told him I was offend and no matter what he thought we were not all racists. His mother didn't pay a bit of attention to what he was playing. It really hurt. He did turn it off.

My husband and I minister to all different kinds of people. The one thing we have found is that unconditional acceptance gets us a whole lot further. When a person is accepted where they are as they are, then they are more willing to accept your wisdom about change in their lives.

Jess did you ever think it just might be a compliment when people adopt your form of dress. that maybe they have seen you have something they don't that is good