Topic #4. Things have got to change
(Showing 25-39 of 109)

25. BB
Tue, Sep 21, 1999 - 9:05 PM/EST
shanita

I was so glad to get your response. And so fast!

Thank you for sharing all of that with me. The part about your father really warmed my heart. I am not surprised that the in-law that protested your marriage is now an ex. The similarities that I see between Italians and blacks is the emphasis both groups tend to put on gestures when they speak. Another similarity among perhaps NYC Italian men and black men is their tendency to be decked out in jewels and gold! [chuckle] I tell you it never fails. About the children, I have found that there is a lot of prejudice among the black and latino children that I have come across mainly because neither is aware of their history. They can only see differences, differences that they were taught to judge as bad or less than wholesome. Frankly, I fail to understand it. My take on this again stems back to our history. Black Americans have been brainwashed since the time of slavery to believe that their features were not beautiful. In an effort to legitimize the slave trade, Africans were looked upon as sub-human so blacks could not possibly be allowed any dignity. This is a scar that permeates us to the core. And, it will not easily be healed. Nevertheless, Latinos, (from the Caribbean in particular) also bear this scar. They still believe that white is good and black is bad. A lot of the Latino children that I have taught refer to themselves as white if their skin coloring is very light. They are unaware of their African ancestry and do not realize that they are people of color. When I teach them about their history they are sometimes incredulous and confused. But, I can say that hanging in groups is less based on race than on shared interests. In most of the cases I have observed, race was simply not a factor ... thank goodness!

26. Things have got to change
Wed, Sep 22, 1999 - 10:48 AM/EST

Wow, I never thought of the aspect of black women being considered ugly because of the medias narrow portrayals and dictation of beauty as being predominantly white(or light skinned),thin....but how true and horribly sad!! I've always believed the medias standards of beauty disregarded most of us,leaving us to feel ugly or fat... (Just look at how many teenaged girls have anoerexia and eating disorders)but I never really thought about how those plastic,narrow minded, unrealistic and claustrophobic standards immensely disregarded the beauty of black women !

27. lauraca
Wed, Sep 22, 1999 - 12:47 PM/EST
cornell92

Thanks for the respsonse and the welcome to the group. First let me say, this a great forum for many of us to express our ideas and beliefs without face to face contact. I mean that in a good way, because I find myself processing ideas and philopsophies, as opposed to ethnicity then ideas. I guess saying I am grounded is one way of puting it, although it has taken several events to get there. At 17 I lost my mother to cancer just before college and conincidentally many of the people who were right by my side were white americans. I can't say if this is a conincidence or not, but it is events like these that have helped me keep a balanced viewpoint on all people. As far as dealing with problems that have come about. I guess you can say sometimes I have rose colored glasses, becuase I just tend to look for situations and people who will accept me and anything related to me. Does that mean racism is not around me, not at all. But I do my best to distance myself from negaqtive situations. I think my past as a high school and college athlete has put me a position of acceptance by many different people. And I realize some might be for the wrong reason, but it is up to the individual to determine good from bad. My most current relationship has been the only one I have had problems with. The hard part for my girlfriend has been the fact that her friend is severly being influenced by her mother and her boyfriend and is unable to make her own judgement. But for me, I take the stance that I don't care. I surround myself with people I am comfortable with and they are enough for me. Have a good day and hope to hear from you soon.

28. lauraca
Wed, Sep 22, 1999 - 12:48 PM/EST
cornell92

One thing I would like to know is when you or anyone is confronted with a situation when is enough enough. I mean what pushes you close to the edge and makes you question the validity of what you are doing. A situation happened without my presence where my girlfriends cousin (although off medication) expressed his dislike for black people) though the use of derogatory language. She was clearly upset by it as was I. But I stepped back and let it go. But I am curious as to when this repeatdly happens to anyone what do you do. Have a good day and look forward to hearing from you.

29. Cornell92
Wed, Sep 22, 1999 - 3:34 PM/EST

Interesting question...My responses to such situations have changed somewhat over the years, and depends on the context in which it happens. If it is a case where someone is just gives my boyfriend and I "looks", I ignore it. However, if anyone I am in a conversation with uses any kind of ethnic or racial slur, I call them on it, usually with an incredulous "Excuse me? Did you just say what I think you said?" I find that the embarrasment generated makes such people think before they open their mouths, and that they are not used to having their prejudices challenged. The one situation that REALLY ticked me off was when I was visiting my sister over the holidays a couple of years ago in Tenessee. A friend of theirs was was over for a small get-together, and the subject of UT's football team came up. Discussing the replacement of Peyton Manning with Tee Martin as QB, this guy actually said "do yall' think that a black man is smart enough to be a great QB?" Ooh boy! I'd had it, and asked him if he was inferring that blacks were less intelligent than whites. He looked uncomfortable and said "Well, you know...". I then let him know exactly what I thought of his level of intelligence - maybe not the best way to handle it, but he may think twice before asking such stupid questions in the future. Needless to say, my sister doesn't invite him over anymore when I visit. Unfortunately, putting these bigots in their place does nothing to change their beliefs.

30. Things have got to change
Wed, Sep 22, 1999 - 5:14 PM/EST
babs

I THINK THAT INTERRACIAL RELATIONSHIPS ARE MORE ACCEPTED BY BLACKS THAN WHITES. WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT IT, WHAT ARE THEY REALLY FEARFUL OF? THE FACT THAT THEIR LILLY WHITE ANCESTORS RAPED AND ABUSED OUR BLACK ANCESTORS, AND THAT THE SINS OF THE FATHER ARE BEING REPEATED IN THE NEXT GENERATION? PEOPLE NEED TO WAKE UP!!! I APPLAUD KAREN AND BILL'S RELATIONSHIP. I;M GLAD IT HAS STOOD THE TEST OF TIME, AND THAT KAREN DID NOT BACK DOWN FROM LOVING THIS MAN, JUST BECAUSE A FEW SMALL MINDS THOUGHT SHE WAS "RUINING HER LIFE". IT DOES'NT MATTER TO ME IF MY DAUGHTER'S GROW UP AND MARRY OR DATE WHITE MEN, AS LONG AS THE "MAN" IS A GOOD MAN AND WILL TAKE CARE OF THEM. WE NEED TO MOVE PAST THIS COLOR ISSUE BECAUSE IT IS BECOMING TIRED, STALE AND OLD.

31. Thing Have Got to Change
Wed, Sep 22, 1999 - 5:52 PM/EST
uhope

Good afternoon, Ladies! I'm rather late joining in the conversation so I hope I haven't missed all the momentum. My name is Uani and I am a 34 year old biracial woman (see bio). Over the past couple of years I've read much dialogue on the web regarding the attitude of black women towards white women who date/marry black men. Much of it is similar to what's composed in the previous posts. But I'm wondering - how long will people continue to use what's happened in history to justify their attitudes of the present? I pose this as a question to both black and white people who have negative feelings about interracial relationships. Like Harmony, I've always been amazed at the attitudes of some towards people they don't even know. In my dating life - my son's dad is black/Filipino but identifies as black. I was engaged a few years ago to a white man and we were considered a "mixed" couple (never understood that). My current boyfriend is black. But I've never felt any more or less racial affinity with any of them. There were many things I was attracted to, their race was NOT one of them. If the man and woman love each other, isn't that enough for anyone? I think I will get valuable insight from the participants on this list, so please help me understand.

32. Shanita
Wed, Sep 22, 1999 - 7:55 PM/EST
bb

I love your (chuckles)! Italian guys with gold chains, shirts open to the waist and hairy chests. Yup, sounds like some I know. About kids in school--we spent a lot of time at our son's highschool helping out. I was surprised the first time I saw the lunch time groups. All of the southeast Asian students were in the cafeteria. The black students were in the quad. A lot of the white students were at picnic tables in various places. And there was very little mixing.

33. Interracial Relationships
Wed, Sep 22, 1999 - 7:59 PM/EST
bb

I agree with what many have said-why can't two people getting together be just about love and common interests. But, understanding the "why" behind the perspective of black women feeling resentful of white women "taking their men" is important. It is has as much to do with the fact that there is a shortage of eligible black men as with the pain, abuse and discrimination that has happened for generations.

34. Changes-History
Wed, Sep 22, 1999 - 10:46 PM/EST
shanita

BB, I totally agree. Enough said. I just want to add to UHOPE that history is not something that justifies behavior it is only one way to understand why it manifests itself in current daily life. Understanding this country's history is one way that will help us improve it for the future. Ignoring or denying the lessons that history teaches us makes us doomed to repeat past mistakes.

35. Cornell 92
Wed, Sep 22, 1999 - 10:50 PM/EST
shanita

Hello again. I just wanted to know if you read the note that I wrote to you in response to your first message. If you did and chose to ignore it I will understand. I just wanted to know for sure.

36. things have got to change
Thu, Sep 23, 1999 - 11:02 AM/EST

I appreciate the dialogue here between Shanita, Harmony and Laura CA. I'm from Wisconsin, which is one of those "sheltered pockets of white people" that Shanita mentions--that is so right on. Talk about geographical segregation...

I'm from a low-income white family in Madison, I am a single mom with a white son and my partner now is a man from India who I cannot take home to meet my family due to their prejudice.

My main concern is not what people think of me and my partner but about kids because they are our future. My son has two friends who are African American and are better dressed and have better manners than the white kids in our neighborhood. One of these boys is gifted. They visit almost every day to play with my son and because their single dad has to work until dinner. We like to think in this country that if you have money, you have personal power. I can't help but worry about these two boys David and Michel and the statistics stacked up against them despite the fact that as a family they have money and personal classiness. Is there a dark cloud over these promising boys: jails, susceptibility to being victims of violence, and local statistics that "say" that reading proficiency for Af/Am's here in Wisconsin is only 17% as compared with 80% for whites in the same schools. Something is wrong with our system of education if whites are somehow learning to read and Af/Am's in the same schools are not learning to read. What is wrong with our schools and with culture that so much is in favor of my son and so much is against Af.American boys with class? The playing field is not level here at all. Maybe my son's pals will be okay, but there is something wrong with schools here if Af. American boys have a greater chance of being victims of violence or risk jail because of color. Maybe there isn't anything we can do about the prejudice of adults in our society, but we have to try and fix things in schools for the kids.

37. Change - Schools
Thu, Sep 23, 1999 - 12:37 PM/EST
uhope

It sounds like Carie's son's friends have many things stacked in their favor rather than against them. They are well dressed and mannered - signs of a loving family life. Although a single parent, their father is working to care for them. They have "money and personal classiness". Many people - regardless of their race - don't have these things going for them. I'll bet their dad doesn't dwell on the negatives; he probably emphasizes just how good their life is, how talented they are, how much he loves them and that they shouldn't let anyone hold them back. People's attitudes about the world at large are so dependent upon the home environment they've lived in. Please keep that in mind, Carie, if you and your beau progress to marriage and children. Help them to view their having two backgrounds as an asset, not a liability. What's great about it, not what people might think or say. When they truly believe that, no one else will be able to tell them differently.

As far as reading goes, what's wrong with taking the initiative ourselves to teach our kids? I was taught to read at age four by my half sister - I taught my sister and brothers and my son before they started kindergarten. Just Dr. Seuss's "Green Eggs and Ham", but the concept was well in hand by the time school started. It's a positive step to take responsibility for our kids' behavior and education and stop blaming "society" only as the reason for failure. Most of a person's character and values are formed before they are five years old. Start young!

38. Change - History
Thu, Sep 23, 1999 - 1:02 PM/EST
uhope

BB & Shanita - I agree that your statements might explain certain negative feelings. But I have two problems with that line of thinking as an excuse for projecting ill will toward another. One - what does one person dating another have to do with anyone else? A woman should have a problem with another woman's man only if that man belonged to her - individually - not to her "people". Otherwise what right does anyone have to look at another's mate and think , "he (or she) should be with me"? It's making something personal that's none of our business. I honestly don't think choosing a mate is a political statement; it's an intensely private matter.

Two - you are totally correct that no one should forget this country's history of prejudice and discrimination. It was horrifying and inexcusable. But does it have to be such a main focus in explaining one's viewpoints? I think it's possible to "let it go and move on" in a sense without forgetting it. It's been my experience that many of the very ones who mention slavery and prejudice as justification for any negative attitudes are ones who also use it as an excuse for underachievement. I think the sooner people stop viewing themselves as victims and feeling within themselves that they REALLY are just as good as everybody else on the planet, we'll all be a lot better off. This kind of self esteem is something that we as parents must instill in our children andcannot expect society to do it.

This was something that got to me watching some of the episodes of ALS. Every difficulty seemed to be blamed on other's view Cicily's biraciality when it seemed more like she was imputing wrong motives on folks - black and white. I've always felt that when you truly expect people to treat you with the respect you accord them, there is a much more even playing field. Conversely, people can tell if you have a negative attitude about them, too and will react accordingly. Distrust breeds distrust.

39. shanita
Thu, Sep 23, 1999 - 1:42 PM/EST
cornell92

good to hear from you. i apologize for not getting back sooner. I appreciate your message and just want to say that it is not a lack of compassion on my part. i do understand the trials and tribulations we have gone through as african americans. but my question for you is, does the past have to dictacte the future. why it will undoubedtly affect the future, i don't see why we as people who are here today can't make the best effort possible to change perceptions. all i was saying was that we don't need to encourage "the enemy" so to speak. I apprciate everybody and everything that has allowed me to be here today, but the only thing we can affect is tommorow. undoubetedly someday we might be the majority, but until then we might as well do what we can to put out the fire and heal the wounds from the past. i hope you didn't take my comment as being incompassionate, but more as a measure of frustration with how we as african americans handle our own problems. thanks for the comment, hope to hear from you soon.