Topic #4. Things have got to change
(Showing 16-30 of 109)

16. Black Women's Image in the Media
Tue, Sep 21, 1999 - 9:46 AM/EST

To Aphrodite -

What an interesting perspective! I had never thought about how black women are portrayed in magazines, other than the women in them are as far from reality as the white women in magazines are. It's no wonder women have self-esteem issues. Being white, brunette, and full-figured,I had always looked at the skinny blondes in fashion magazines and wondered why real women weren't portrayed; I have never even known anyone who looked like someone in a magazine. It is important that black women also realize that they are beautiful just the way they are, and that the women in the magazines don't reflect real life in any way. I happen to think that black womens' hair and variety of skin tones are beautiful. As for thin lips, how many stories have you read about white women getting collagen injections to make their lips FULLER? We should be proud of our appearance and not compare ourselves to the media ideal. To buy into that image is to betray our true selves.

17. the more things change
Tue, Sep 21, 1999 - 1:40 PM/EST

first let me say that you folks do an impressive job of expressing yourselves with -of all things- a lot of kindness. It occurs to me that there may be two paths to 'the ideal'. One would be for all the people to accept an 'inner motivation' that accepts all peoples. The other may be sense that all peoples, with a wide spectrum of inner motivations, be accepted. The criticism of Carlton challenges both assumptions- he doesn't appear to accept all people- and the people in this discussion are having a hard time accepting his behavior-not to be confused with his point of view. I am trying to understand, in what way his conduct is an expression of his point of view?

18. change
Tue, Sep 21, 1999 - 4:13 PM/EST
cornell92

I do not necessarily agreee with the problems society creates for us. In a lot of situations I think we place the burden on ourselves. The media and society will always look for the "STORY" in a story. With the show, while I admire Bill and Karen for what they have gone through I don't think it was an ideal portrayal due to the problems they had. I will be last to judge, but when you pose an image like a black alcoholic who spends a whole weekend away from his wife, I ask myself who has the problem. Out of all of the couples that could have been presented in this situation I fel there were better ones to potray. We as african-americans give white america a lot of their amunition from single mothers to the alcoholism. And of course these are problems in white communites, but we are the ones who will be portrayed as the bad people. I told my girlfriend, who has had trouble from a particular white friend, put me in front of her friends family of "THUGS" (drug dealers and adulterers)and it won't even be a contest. I think once black america changes you will see more and more change. We must help ourselves before we ask for help.

19. Welcome
Tue, Sep 21, 1999 - 4:50 PM/EST

To Cornell92 - welcome to the group! It's great to have another male viewpoint. Regarding Karen and Bill, I don't think that you could ever find an "ideal" family for such a documentary, as everyone has their problems. While I would never make assumptions about all black men based on Bill's behavior, I can agree that it could put forth a negative image to those who are narrowminded and/or ignorant. Somehow, I don't think many who fit that category would even watch the series.

It sounds like you are a pretty grounded person, and that you are dealing with issues surrounding your interracial relationships well. I'd be interested in hearing more from you on your experiences and how you have dealt with people who are disapproving, rude, etc. As a white woman dating a black man, I'd like to be able to compare notes, so to speak. We may live on opposite coasts, but I'll bet we share some common experiences. I look forward to your contributions to our group.

20. change
Tue, Sep 21, 1999 - 7:32 PM/EST
domdotcom

cornell-what sort of skeletons do you expect to find in the closets of more 'ideal' people? bill overcame his alcohol problem, it's not an uncommon thing for some to suffer from. the older you get, the more you talk to people , the more you find that everyone has something. i understand you don't want him to be seen as one more drunken black man on tv, but you have to know that you were affected because it was real. that's what it was supposed to do. the fact that you felt something means more than if you would have never believed it. i'm sure you have more feelings about the show than just that. what other feelings came out from you while you watched? what did you relate to? what questions would you ask themif you could?

21. BB
Tue, Sep 21, 1999 - 7:40 PM/EST
shanita

You are so right about the brainwashing. Unless a person is armed with education and common sense and open-minded and loving home-training, it is so easy to become a pawn. To answer your question, I am at the point where I am willing to give a man of any race a chance. And, it is not because of a desperation for marriage, (sadly for my mother and father, I couldn't care less), but just the thought of having a partnership with someone of the opposite sex who I get along with, want to spend time with, and want to be close to. I know that there has got to be some guy out there that I would want this with. I am a loner, but I know my limitations. I am a person who puts inner peace and spiritual contentedness above all else. I refuse to be in a relationship that I am unhappy in. If I meet a man of another race that I feel I could live the rest of my life with, then he will be the one. And yet I think to myself, it is hard enough being in a romantic relationship as it, why add to the difficulty by having an inter-racial realtionship? Such a dilemma. And, maybe not. BB, if you don't mind me asking, how did you meet your husband? How did your family feel about the two of you dating?

I am sometimes puzzled by the reaction that some Italian-Americans have to black Americans considering how close Italy is to Africa. [chuckle] I personally have always felt blacks and Italians to be similar in a variety of ways. I don't know. I guess I just wish that more people chose to see the similarities that exist between the races and not just the differences. What do you think?

22. Shanita
Tue, Sep 21, 1999 - 8:13 PM/EST
bb

I think you are right on to put inner peace and spiritual contentedness ahead of all else. Life is too short and too complex to give that up. Sometimes I struggle really hard to hang onto it. I met my husband when a mutual friend introduced us after she learned I would be open to dating a black man. We hit it off from the start because he has such a great sense of humor and he is a very organized person. When we announced our engagement one person from each of our families was against it. My husband's brother's wife (black and now ex) did not attend the wedding and would not come to our home for family gatherings. At my in-laws home she was barely civil to us. In my family it was my dad. I tried to talk to him and ask him how he could act on prejudice against blacks when he recalls all too well how Italians in lower Manhattan (he was born in Little Italy) were mistreated. He said he thought people should stick to their own kind. My dad didn't speak to me for months until about 2 weeks before the wedding. He sent back the reception rsvp saying he would attend. When I called him we both cried and he said he was just being an old fool and the most important thing was that I was happy. Now you would think he hand picked my husband for me! They are a lot alike. What similarities do you see between African Americans and Italian Americans? I think the Italy-Africa connection is there! I agree. I wish people could see the similarities. But I also know that when white people say we're all alike what is often meant is that they should be like us. White people want to be seen as individuals but often stereotype people of color by groups (blacks commit crimes, Asians are hard working, and so on). Wow! I think I have talked your ear off (typed your eyes crossed?) As a teacher what do you see happening with children and prejudice? Do you think it comes from being taught at home? Is there a natural tendency to hang in like groups?

23. Change - Cornell
Tue, Sep 21, 1999 - 8:18 PM/EST
shanita

Welcome to the group! I am so glad that a male has had some input thus far. I have to say that as a black American, I understand when you say that African-Americans must clean up their act, so to speak. There are quite a few wounds and bruises that have yet to heal within the black community. It often baffles me though, how some blacks forget or choose not to remember that as a people we have had to endure much in the way of manipulation and deception at the hands of the "dominant" group in this country. Unlike many or most of the other groups of people that came to this country we have nowhere else to go. Our roots in Africa are unknown to us. We, in a sense, cannot "go home" like some people have suggested, and still do suggest. We are stuck here in the land of the enemy, so to speak.

The laws have changed, but not necessarily the people. The failure of the people in this country to communicate honestly about the awful legacy that the slave trade has left behind, has led to the misgivings and mistrustfulness that pervade our society today. Hell, this country is barely dealing with the way the natives were treated. And, you know, that is an issue unto itself. But, what I am saying really is where is your compassion? Surely if you can give it to yourself, and I hope that you do, you can give it to the rest of the community. Yes, we have a problem, but it didn't come from nowhere and much of what set it in motion in the beginning continues to exacerbate the situation to this day.

24. To cornell92
Tue, Sep 21, 1999 - 8:40 PM/EST
briles

What family in American is ideal...oh, oh, I know, the Huxtables. Every family has problems. It's called living. I don't mean to seem sarcastic or rude, but I think that they were an ideal family. Alcoholism, especially among teenagers is too prevalent in this country for people not to have an opportunity to see how a family can cope with it, live with it, and be challenged by it every day. It shows inner strength and courage, and I'm proud that Bill was able to share that. I had my own questions about Bill saying he was not going to be there for Karen's surgery. For me, that would not work.

As far as his going off for one weekend, that's out of how many. I think we need to remember that we didn't see every aspect as their lives.

As far as the portrayal of Bill as a reflection of typical black males...I'm not one, so explain this to me. Do you think that maybe you feel some shame there? How would you feel if Bill had been an attorney and his job required many hours away from home or maybe he just enjoyed getting away every once and awhile. I do not find that Bill's life is a negative reflection of black men. I think that more of his problems stem from holding a lot inside, sharing only through his music, and not being able to communicate well with his family. I have seen a lot worse portrayals of black men on TV, and Bill didn't even come close to those.

25. BB
Tue, Sep 21, 1999 - 9:05 PM/EST
shanita

I was so glad to get your response. And so fast!

Thank you for sharing all of that with me. The part about your father really warmed my heart. I am not surprised that the in-law that protested your marriage is now an ex. The similarities that I see between Italians and blacks is the emphasis both groups tend to put on gestures when they speak. Another similarity among perhaps NYC Italian men and black men is their tendency to be decked out in jewels and gold! [chuckle] I tell you it never fails. About the children, I have found that there is a lot of prejudice among the black and latino children that I have come across mainly because neither is aware of their history. They can only see differences, differences that they were taught to judge as bad or less than wholesome. Frankly, I fail to understand it. My take on this again stems back to our history. Black Americans have been brainwashed since the time of slavery to believe that their features were not beautiful. In an effort to legitimize the slave trade, Africans were looked upon as sub-human so blacks could not possibly be allowed any dignity. This is a scar that permeates us to the core. And, it will not easily be healed. Nevertheless, Latinos, (from the Caribbean in particular) also bear this scar. They still believe that white is good and black is bad. A lot of the Latino children that I have taught refer to themselves as white if their skin coloring is very light. They are unaware of their African ancestry and do not realize that they are people of color. When I teach them about their history they are sometimes incredulous and confused. But, I can say that hanging in groups is less based on race than on shared interests. In most of the cases I have observed, race was simply not a factor ... thank goodness!

26. Things have got to change
Wed, Sep 22, 1999 - 10:48 AM/EST

Wow, I never thought of the aspect of black women being considered ugly because of the medias narrow portrayals and dictation of beauty as being predominantly white(or light skinned),thin....but how true and horribly sad!! I've always believed the medias standards of beauty disregarded most of us,leaving us to feel ugly or fat... (Just look at how many teenaged girls have anoerexia and eating disorders)but I never really thought about how those plastic,narrow minded, unrealistic and claustrophobic standards immensely disregarded the beauty of black women !

27. lauraca
Wed, Sep 22, 1999 - 12:47 PM/EST
cornell92

Thanks for the respsonse and the welcome to the group. First let me say, this a great forum for many of us to express our ideas and beliefs without face to face contact. I mean that in a good way, because I find myself processing ideas and philopsophies, as opposed to ethnicity then ideas. I guess saying I am grounded is one way of puting it, although it has taken several events to get there. At 17 I lost my mother to cancer just before college and conincidentally many of the people who were right by my side were white americans. I can't say if this is a conincidence or not, but it is events like these that have helped me keep a balanced viewpoint on all people. As far as dealing with problems that have come about. I guess you can say sometimes I have rose colored glasses, becuase I just tend to look for situations and people who will accept me and anything related to me. Does that mean racism is not around me, not at all. But I do my best to distance myself from negaqtive situations. I think my past as a high school and college athlete has put me a position of acceptance by many different people. And I realize some might be for the wrong reason, but it is up to the individual to determine good from bad. My most current relationship has been the only one I have had problems with. The hard part for my girlfriend has been the fact that her friend is severly being influenced by her mother and her boyfriend and is unable to make her own judgement. But for me, I take the stance that I don't care. I surround myself with people I am comfortable with and they are enough for me. Have a good day and hope to hear from you soon.

28. lauraca
Wed, Sep 22, 1999 - 12:48 PM/EST
cornell92

One thing I would like to know is when you or anyone is confronted with a situation when is enough enough. I mean what pushes you close to the edge and makes you question the validity of what you are doing. A situation happened without my presence where my girlfriends cousin (although off medication) expressed his dislike for black people) though the use of derogatory language. She was clearly upset by it as was I. But I stepped back and let it go. But I am curious as to when this repeatdly happens to anyone what do you do. Have a good day and look forward to hearing from you.

29. Cornell92
Wed, Sep 22, 1999 - 3:34 PM/EST

Interesting question...My responses to such situations have changed somewhat over the years, and depends on the context in which it happens. If it is a case where someone is just gives my boyfriend and I "looks", I ignore it. However, if anyone I am in a conversation with uses any kind of ethnic or racial slur, I call them on it, usually with an incredulous "Excuse me? Did you just say what I think you said?" I find that the embarrasment generated makes such people think before they open their mouths, and that they are not used to having their prejudices challenged. The one situation that REALLY ticked me off was when I was visiting my sister over the holidays a couple of years ago in Tenessee. A friend of theirs was was over for a small get-together, and the subject of UT's football team came up. Discussing the replacement of Peyton Manning with Tee Martin as QB, this guy actually said "do yall' think that a black man is smart enough to be a great QB?" Ooh boy! I'd had it, and asked him if he was inferring that blacks were less intelligent than whites. He looked uncomfortable and said "Well, you know...". I then let him know exactly what I thought of his level of intelligence - maybe not the best way to handle it, but he may think twice before asking such stupid questions in the future. Needless to say, my sister doesn't invite him over anymore when I visit. Unfortunately, putting these bigots in their place does nothing to change their beliefs.

30. Things have got to change
Wed, Sep 22, 1999 - 5:14 PM/EST
babs

I THINK THAT INTERRACIAL RELATIONSHIPS ARE MORE ACCEPTED BY BLACKS THAN WHITES. WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT IT, WHAT ARE THEY REALLY FEARFUL OF? THE FACT THAT THEIR LILLY WHITE ANCESTORS RAPED AND ABUSED OUR BLACK ANCESTORS, AND THAT THE SINS OF THE FATHER ARE BEING REPEATED IN THE NEXT GENERATION? PEOPLE NEED TO WAKE UP!!! I APPLAUD KAREN AND BILL'S RELATIONSHIP. I;M GLAD IT HAS STOOD THE TEST OF TIME, AND THAT KAREN DID NOT BACK DOWN FROM LOVING THIS MAN, JUST BECAUSE A FEW SMALL MINDS THOUGHT SHE WAS "RUINING HER LIFE". IT DOES'NT MATTER TO ME IF MY DAUGHTER'S GROW UP AND MARRY OR DATE WHITE MEN, AS LONG AS THE "MAN" IS A GOOD MAN AND WILL TAKE CARE OF THEM. WE NEED TO MOVE PAST THIS COLOR ISSUE BECAUSE IT IS BECOMING TIRED, STALE AND OLD.