Topic #20. Opposing seeing Others in interracial relationships--or being a hypocrite
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1. Opposing seeing Others in interracial relationships--or being a hypocrite
Wed, Sep 22, 1999 - 9:09 PM/EST

Does anyone else have this problem--really, this issue? I've been

in an interracial relationship for three years now, and yet whenever I

see a brother dating or involved with a white woman, it

upsets me. Not to the point that I'll be angry, but a little part of

me says, "what's wrong with a black woman--or even me?"

I can't explain why I feel this way, nor do I find it logical since I

chose to be involved and (advocate, if you will) interracial

relationships. Any takers on why this may be? Could anyone relate to

this?

2. The crusade of all crusades.
Wed, Sep 22, 1999 - 10:01 PM/EST
anthony

davorah,

your post is interesting because I kind of felt a little of what you're describing. When you see a BM and WF together, do you think that one of the parties has ulterier motives? In other words, do you buy on to the idea that the WF is some sort of status symbol? That could be what upsets you. I am a bit repulsed by the idea that someone from another race could be a status symbol, with God making us all equal.

I've said before that I really don't see any thing wrong with IRs, but not ever being in that situation for a lasting relationship, personal experience isn't really on my side. However, sometimes I wonder why people would want to put that kind of burden on their shoulders. Understanding some of our capitalistic, greedy world, I can see the economic reasons for those possessed by money. With other people, I think that they do it because it is something to stand up and fight for even if their mate isn't quite right. People can be driven solely by the difficulty to make it work. I'm sure it is rewarding experience to make an IR work, but do some people get sidetracked by just that?

3. I have the same problem!
Thu, Sep 23, 1999 - 8:44 PM/EST
blackwoman

I am so glad you said that because I find myself in a similar situation, but reluctant to talk about it with anyone. I ask the same question...Do BM see WW as being better than BW? I almost take it as an insult everytime I see the BM/WW combination, yet I am in an IR relationship myself. And it's so silly because it's not like B and W people are the only colors of people on this earth. I REALLY hate that I feel this way because it does make me a hypocrite. I always have to tell myself that it is really none of my business, but what if I find myself in a situation where I would have to confront my feelings?

I think perhaps it has something to do with the fact that I see a higher percentage of BM/WW IRR's than the other way around. I don't think that I would have as strong a feeling if the numbers were more balanced. There is also the fact that the number of BM who (forgive the statement) would generally be considered good dating material/lifetime mates is not exactly at an all-time high. Then you see them, BM...especially financially stable BM, choosing mates outside their race. What are we as BW supposed to do?...put our love lives on hold waiting for a brotha to grow up and be a man? Don't get me wrong, I'm not the type who wants a man to take care of my every waking need and I don't consider myself to be too materialistic either; but, I do want someone who is going to carry his weight. I am speaking totally for myself when I say it's like if you are a BW headed down a professional career path, you almost end up having to look outside your race for a good mate or else you'll end up with someone who, feeling threatened by your goals, tries to "bring you down a peg or two".

I suppose I feel anger toward BM for somehow putting me in this position and because it feels like they are "selling out" in a major way. I also feel anger toward WW because it feels a bit like they are being greedy.

Okay, please don't shoot me for what I just said.

4. Appreciate Honesty
Thu, Sep 23, 1999 - 10:59 PM/EST
wheatongirl

I have never been involved in a biracial relationship, nor am I in one at present. I have absolutely no qualms about people dating others from different ethnicities. But, I just wanted to thank you all for your honesty in sharing on this issue. It definitely reflects a maturity and humility that is very hard to find these days! God bless.

5. controversy
Thu, Sep 23, 1999 - 11:49 PM/EST
robin

I think it's great that you've opened up something that is probably going to spark controversy (so far, we've all been preachin' to the choir for the most part).

I was surprised to read your posts (davorah and blackwoman). I had always assumed that anyone in an IR was accepting of all IR (never assume anything). I truly appreciate your honesty and I have to be equally as honest in my reply. I do think it is a bit hypocritical of you to be involved with what I assume are good white men and to fault white women for being with good black men. Yes, I know that this system makes it very difficult for black men to succeed on a many levels therefore limiting the pool of decent husbands and fathers (thinking long term). In the total population, something like 1 out of every 2 marriages ends in divorce so I'm going to jump to a conclusion, a good man is hard to find, period.

Do you feel that you were driven to white men because white women have taken all of the good black men? If that's the case, I would like to hear some of your history in regards to the relationships you've had or haven't had with black men.

To go a step further, the elite of this country love to keep things the way that they are. What better way to do that than to keep the entire population divided? Let propaganda perpetuate these myths that white women take all of the good black men, that black women have to turn to white men because there's nothin' else left. Even when they're coming together, make sure that we plant the ideas in their brains that by loving eachother their abandoning their race, that they really don't love themselves, sellouts. Tell the white woman that she must be a slut for being with a black man or that she's not good enough to get a white man. Fill their heads with all of this crap and make sure that the people will never come together.

6. in response to all
Fri, Sep 24, 1999 - /EST

Wow!I thought that i'd be blasted for putting forth such

"subversive ideas!I thank all of you for empathizing and responding.

Anthony:I do believe that White woman are seen as the standard of

beautyjust look around you-tv..etc-That particular issue reminded me

of another closely related one.That is, do i attract both white/black,

any man due to my close proximity (hair, color, features)to the white

beauty standard?That issue always bothered me when Iwas younger-and

still to an extent.This problem seems worse than the jealousy issue,

since the way I look contributes to that standard of beauty,and I'm

not sure if I want to be included there-yet what is the alternative?

7. "
Fri, Sep 24, 1999 - /EST

testing

8. in response to Robin
Fri, Sep 24, 1999 - 11:43 PM/EST

I apologize for my multiple and quasi-unclear postings (the later

ones)I had difficulty in posting my responses...so here goes.

Actually, I was "driven" to a white man who happened to be a

good friend of mine for two years before we started teh relationship.

Basically I only dated Black men and my preference was black men.

Yet, I found that through essentializing my preference--look only for

black men, I was ignoring/literally overlooking a person who happens

to be what I believe to be my soul mate (going on three years and

counting). If this relationship happens to fall apart then I plan to

date whomever I click with emotionally/psychologically, etc. Although

race is an issue, it won't be the one determining factor as to whether

I will date or not date a person.

To be honest Robin--I've been trying to get at teh root of my feelings

toward white women with black men. I acknowledge teh hypocrisy, yet I

still don't understand the why and how I came to feel this way. To be

honest, I feel much better knowing that others like blackwomen also

feel the same way...at least i'm not alone... Although it's unfair to

say, when I usually see such mixed relationships I usually assume that

it's the opposite race purposely looking for someone outside of their

race to date. That I find a problem with in general.

For the reasons stated above...Though I do appreciate your response,

and your view on this situation.

9. To blackwoman
Fri, Sep 24, 1999 - 11:53 PM/EST

I will try to recreate what I tried to post over and over again last

night--Blackwoman: I feel you girl, I hear you. Infact I think that we

must wear the same shoe size because I've walked in those same

Isotoner slippers--and they are worn out! I'm just thankful that I'm

not alone in feeling this way! Though I can't say that I feel any ill

will to black men (even those who specifically seek to only date white

women--after all, I suppose those type of fella's probably wouldn't be

able to appreciate a black woman's attitude/features, etc if he

deliberately seeks woman outside his race for romance) Thanks for

your response!

P.s. I quasi answered some of your queries in the response to robin--I

just melded the two together so that I could insure that at least one

message would get posted.

11. For robin cont'd
Sat, Sep 25, 1999 - 8:02 AM/EST
blackwoman

...I've changed a lot, obviously. Now my focus is just on being happy. So, it's not to say that all my relationships with BM were terrible experiences and therefore I now make an effort to date WM just to get back at BM. Some were bad, but generally we (BM and I) have not "clicked" on some level the way I could/can with WM...not enough to be involved in an intimate relationship. Gosh, I could write a book, but that's part of how I feel.

I am engaged to a WM, but if I were looking for a companion, then yes, I do feel that BM/WW relationships are yet another factor that is making it more difficult for BW to find BM as companions...and that is spreading to more socieoeconomic levels than just the middle to upper-middle classes and above. Also, I think whereas before the BM/WW IRR's became widespread, love between BM and WW happened more, I guess, spontaneously. Now, I think that BM have in a way sent/are sending a signal that they are ready and willing, and WW in response have become more aggressive in openly seeking out BM as mates. This is another way of explaining what I said earlier about my feelings when I see BM with WW. I contend that BW should hear the wake-up call and, if they so desire, do the same and stop pushing away potentially good mates because of old-fashioned taboos that don't apply to us presently. I think that's all I'm saying.

Now that I've answered some of your questions, let me ask you this: What do you think about the fact that most of the prominent BM (those most often seen in the news, magazines, movies, etc.)in the US and in other countries are with WW or as close to W as they can possibly get? Just to add a note, I'm just waiting to see who Tiger Woods chooses to date publically ;-)

12. For robin cont'd
Sat, Sep 25, 1999 - 8:14 AM/EST
blackwoman

...I've changed a lot. Now my focus is just on being happy. So, it's not to say that all my relationships with BM were terrible experiences and therefore I now make an effort to date WM just to get back at BM. Some were bad, but generally BM and I have not clicked on some level the way I can with WM...not enough to be involved in an intimate relationship. Gosh, I could write a book, but that's part of how I feel.

I am engaged to a WM, but if I were looking for a companion, then yes, I do feel that BM/WW relationships are yet another factor that is making it more difficult for BW to find BM as companions...and that is spreading to more socieoeconomic levels than just the middle classes and above. Also whereas before, love between BM and WW happened more, I guess, spontaneously, now I think that BM have in a way sent/are sending a signal that they are ready and willing, and WW in response have become more aggressive in openly seeking out BM as mates. I contend that BW should hear the wake-up call and, if they so desire, do the same and stop pushing away potentially good mates because of old-fashioned taboos that don't apply to us presently. I think that's all I'm saying. My concern here is mostly for BW who may lose out by making the same mistake I made and for those BW who I can tell you right now are taking this BM/WW thing to heart as a negative against BW. If feel we as BW need to stop absorbing so many of these negatives that society is throwing at us and start being more proactive in attaining happiness in our lives.

Now that I've answered some of your questions, let me ask you this: What do you think about the fact that most of the prominent BM (those most often seen in the news, magazines, movies, etc.)in the US and in other countries are with WW or as close to W as they can possibly get? Just to add a note, I'm just waiting to see who Tiger Woods chooses to date publically ;-)

13. For robin (first part..I type so much and this edit didn't go exactly as planned)
Sat, Sep 25, 1999 - 8:31 AM/EST
blackwoman

First let me say that I'm happy you've found love, and that I don't wish anyone to be without it. And I don't feel any ill feelings toward you personally. These are just things that I think about...being a psych major, I analyze just about everything...=)

It's interesting that you ask if I feel I've been "driven" to WM. I suppose I brought that on myself when I said earlier that it's like I feel resentment toward BM for "putting me in this position", but that is not the complete picture for me. For some reason, it has usually always been WM who have shown serious interest in me and who I've been attracted to in return. I can remember my father telling me when I was a little girl that he could tell I had a thing for WM. A classmate in high school told me he wouldn't be surprised if I married a WM. In fact, when I was a freshman in college and still dating my highschool sweetheart (BM), another student (WM) with whom I had become good friends and who I knew had more than just a casual interest in me (the feeling was mutual)came right out and asked me why I stayed with my HS sweetheart because he could take care of me better. Huh! I wish I had given him a chance to try, but at the time I was trying to stay within my own race no matter what the cost--cost meaning staying in a relationship which did not feel quite right or just trying to make a relationship work that was hurtful and hopeless. That student eventually found another student to date (WW), but still cared for me right up until graduation after which we have not seen each other again. I lost him because of my beliefs at the time that I should stay within my race if nothing else, for the sake of preservation...

14. To blackwoman in response to the response to Robin (cont part?)
Sun, Sep 26, 1999 - 11:16 PM/EST

About the Tiger Woods issue, I think it's important to mention that he

doesn't classify himself as only black...if you recall in an

interview (years ago, I can't even recall which

publication), he stated that he used to call himself "Caublacasian" or

"Cablasian" something to the extent of including all three races in

his background (Caucasian, Black, and Asian). Therefore, how would

that complicate the dating issue? Or, will the little bugger stay

forever single, thus never fulfilling anyones expectations? ( I hope

not, he's such a cutie!)

15. For davorah
Mon, Sep 27, 1999 - 5:29 AM/EST
blackwoman

Hmmm...that's interesting. No, I hadn't heard that he chooses to call himself caublasian<---hehe. I do remember and incident when he was first getting noticed where another golfer asked him where his "greens and corn bread" were.

16. why white women?
Mon, Sep 27, 1999 - 5:55 PM/EST
robin

I don't know if I can agree that the most prominent black men in the country and in the world are paired with white women. I think that we just tend to notice it more than we notice a same race couple. I would really like to find some statistics on successful black men and who they are married to.

Also, to say "as close to white as he can possibly get" is not really fair to what I'm taking to mean black women who "act white" (whatever that means) or who have lighter skin, more caucasian features (through no choice or fault of their own).

A lot of successful black men do seek white women, though. Why? Because being white in America is the best thing to be (as far as privledge goes). Let's wake up. If black women want BM to stay with only BW, complaining about BM/WF relationships isn't going to stop them. America was founded on racism and sexism and everyone is trying to assilmilate to it. We're all trying to get the house and the car and keep up with the Joneses. As a country we're lacking a collective consciousness to change anything.

People forget that it takes more than complaining to get things done. It takes a lot of work and sacrifice. We talk about police brutality and environmental racism, but how many of us have gone to rallies, written letters to congress, boycotted texaco? You may not think that this has anything to do with personal relationships, but when a system systematically keeps a people down of course success with be equated with the people that are elevated- in this case white people.

I don't think that the majority of black men who are with white women are actively thinking it will be a symbol of success. I think that if and when it is there it is subconscious.

For the record, I do think that a black man can love himself and his race, be proud of his heritage and his family and still be in love with a white woman.