Topic #26. Colorblindness
(Showing 1-25 of 25)

1. Colorblindness
Tue, Sep 21, 1999 - 3:14 PM/EST
ethie'sgirl

I've been reading a book about teaching reading comprehension and came across a great line today that made me think of all of you.

"I began to realize that asking the tough questions and providing a venue for conversation about them is, perhaps, our most important work."

(Ellin Oliver Keene)

I couldn't wait to share that. I started thinking about questions that I haven't asked yet, and the first thing that came to mind is the whole idea of colorblindness.

When I was in high school, colorblindness seemed to mean that no one had to acknowledge that I was in any way different. But it also meant that they said really unbelievable things to and around me because they never thought they were doing anything inappropriate. Someone once told me that she didn't like Mick Jagger because he had "those nasty nigger lips." And when I looked at her in shock, it took her a while to figure out what I was upset about. "OH! But you know, you're not really even black," she explained. Because, you know, she was colorblind.

Today I have three friends whose sole mission seems to be to fix me up with a nice guy and marry me off as soon as is humanly -- or humanely? :) -- possible. Nevermind how I feel about that; that's a whole other topic. Their efforts, however, are problematic. They spend a lot of time describing me to these potential husbands, but they NEVER tell these men that I am black. When asked why they leave out this "detail," they say "because it doesn't matter," or "because we never think of that." You know, because they are colorblind. And on the one hand I know there's something good in this -- that they love me for who I am and all that. But on the other hand ... how realistic is it for them to think my blackness doesn't matter, for them to assume that it won't matter to some guy they want to fix me up with?

2. continuation
Tue, Sep 21, 1999 - 3:15 PM/EST
ethie'sgirl

All of which reminds me of a summer I spent hitch hiking in Europe. I was in France, driving with a trucker. We were nearing the point where he would have to drop me off and he started calling out over the radio to find me another ride. He said, "I have a nice American girl here. She's on her way to Spain, she's young, she speaks French ... and don't be a racist because she's black." And I started laughing when he said that. He looked at me, totally confused. "What? You *are* black." Of course but, as I told him, I couldn't imagine anyone at home adding that to a description of me. "Well, they're crazy," he said.

I'm not exactly sure where I'm heading with this, what question I want to pose. This whole issue is just one that is always coming back to the forefront of my consciousness. Can there really be such a thing a colorblindness? Does there need to be? Do I want there to be?

3. Wow tough question--you sure do ask them don't you?
Tue, Sep 21, 1999 - 6:40 PM/EST

NO there is no such thing as colorblindness. At least not in my world. I say this having been around black people in some way most of my life. In high school, my very best friends were black, and I generally spent more time with their families--I felt safer there--than with my own. I have dated black men over the years at different points in my life. and in this case I will allow, I just always dated the men I most enjoyed the experience of being with. I just dated the people who most interested me and kept me in good conversation. So to an extent, I kind of felt that is the closest I came to color blindness--in my dating relationships. I say I don't think it's possible because other people always remind me of color (lest I forget that I am married to a black man, I never need look far for some reminder from someone).

Something else comes to mind. When I was pregnant with our daughter, at around four months, I came to live with my MIL. I lived with her and her husband for my entire pregnancy. Can I tell you that when I showed up in Seattle at the airport to live with these people I was scared out of my wits?! It suddenly occurred to me that they were black. Sure, my husband is black, but he is my husband, and I don't think about it all that much. But his mother was a black stranger! I know this sounds completely ludicrous, but it is really how I felt. I didn't know how they'd treat me. I hadn't spent any time with his mother and I barely knew her. I had no idea how she felt.

cotd

4. cotd
Tue, Sep 21, 1999 - 6:41 PM/EST

After living with her for five months, I came to know her very well (more so than most dil's ever get to know their mil's). We got to be good friends, and were able to discuss the misgivings we had about each other in the beginning simply due to the fact that we were different colors. She thought maybe I had married her son because I was 'that' kind of white woman, and I thought she would resent me for being a white woman and stealing one of the black men out of the community. These are beliefs we held (on some level) before we ever knew each other. Things that we have learned from way back. It took a month or two of getting to understand each other to dispell these preconceived ideas. But getting to know this amazing and wonderful woman taught me a lot about myself. It taught me that it's only in getting to know a person all the way do you realize that color is not important. When we learn that we are all the same and different--all at once.

I'm so glad my MIL is in our lives and accepts me like a daughter. I'm very happy that the family environment my daughter will be raised in is one of love and understanding.

5. colorblind or not
Tue, Sep 21, 1999 - 7:56 PM/EST

I try very hard to take the person in front of me at face value as long as i don't sense a strong disconnect between the face and the deed. I like to have what i say be what is heard rather than what i say be painted against every stereotype that sounds alittle like me.

If someone wants to be proud of their blackness there is certainly much to be proud of.

6. Seems to Me
Tue, Sep 21, 1999 - 8:04 PM/EST

That color should not matter, but as Ethiesgirl said, it does matter to a great many people whether a propective date is white or black, or green or red too. Your friends may not "see" you as black (or white, etc.) but other people will and do.

For the past 25 years I have been writing to a black woman in South Africa. We have never met and only spoken on the phone a couple of times yet she is one of my "dearest" friends. Certainly race is a big thing in her country but I truly never think of her as being any color, and never did. To me, she is just a friend who has been through many of my life crisis through letters we've shared. She is always the first person to send me a birthday card or holiday greeting. In all these years of correspondence we have never exchanged gifts of any sort, other than gifts of friendship and caring. She's been through my divorce a few years ago and I so wanted her to come to my recent remarriage. We always said when one married, the other would have to visit, so I figure she "owes" me 2 trips. Realistically, we know that distance and costs may delay an in-person visit. Ironically a co-worker of mine went to South Africa a couple of years ago and looked up my friend and was able to meet with her. I so wish that it could have been me!

7. color matters
Tue, Sep 21, 1999 - 9:05 PM/EST
angie

I must admit that one compliment that I cherish from some black co-worker/friends once is "You're not white, you're just Angie." So what does that make me, opaque?, I've always wondered. I think having friends of other races really helps encourage the good kind of colorblindness, where you really don't see them in terms of color. But one has to be careful not to develop the bad kind, like the illustration above where a friend made a racist remark.

I think that color does matter in this society in both good and bad ways. The bad way is when people are judged poorly because of it, only by the shade of their flesh. The good way is when one can say yes I'm black (latino, etc.) and this is my ethnicity and history and it's a good thing.

Hopefully, in this society we will be able to work toward a time when colorblindness will not be necessary. When being of a certain ethnicity characterized by dark skin will just be an ethnic difference, not a political difference that plays itself out in racism. Until then, a certain amount of colorblindness is probably a good thing to implement.

As I was writing this, my boyfriend wandered by and inquired about the topic. When I told him colorblindness, he made the following comment, which I thought was astute enough to include: "Only those who are not forced to see people in terms of color (i.e., the majority) can even make the choice of being colorblind, therefore the whole notion of 'colorblindness' is a position of privilege."

Hmmm...

8. I do see color
Tue, Sep 21, 1999 - 9:39 PM/EST
smoothtap

I understand what everyone’s saying but I don't see it the same way. I see all the different shades of color because it is a physical part of who we are. There are to many beautiful shades of skin color to omit it. No matter what we do we will still see it everyday. It's not the color that’s the problem it is our perception of what it means. You can say "There's another black girl over there" or you can say, "That's a beautiful black woman standing there". The first phrase suggested she was an annoyance or problem and the later describes a woman most men would want to be with. Skin color is just like hair color or eye color and it's time we treat it as such, a physical description and not a social one.

9. here, here, smoothtap
Tue, Sep 21, 1999 - 11:40 PM/EST
jacqueline

I truly could not have said it better. As I was scrolling through the posts, I was thinking to myself, "that's a good point, but my take is a little different. . ." Then I read your post and it was as though you were livin' in my brain.

Well said.

J

10. smoothtap...
Wed, Sep 22, 1999 - /EST

once again you said it just right. Thanks.

B

11. colorblind
Wed, Sep 22, 1999 - 7:13 AM/EST

is something that I think is impossible. As smoothtap said, we are all different shades of color. By the way, that was perfectly said.

Maybe white people need to get past that fear of describing someone as black, afraid of labeling that person.

12. Don't want to be colorblind...
Wed, Sep 22, 1999 - 10:25 AM/EST

I always felt that saying you are colorblind is like saying there is something wrong with being a different skin color. Like saying it's not ok to notice it in a positive way. I don't ever want to be colorblind! I love, cherish and enjoy seeing different colors of skin...from milky white, to the deepest brown...

I think it's part of our makeup, and, like smooth said, it's a physical, not a social identity. I think we should never be colorblind, but enjoy, and see the different colors. Imagine how dull our world would be if we looked the same?!

13. color blindness- Strictly my own oppinion.
Wed, Sep 22, 1999 - 10:41 AM/EST
antionette

The underlining intent of color blindness, I belive, is to show a lack of negative judgement based on color. I do not believe that the whites who are attempting to be racially accepting of all people are comfortabel discribing color in such obvious ways as you suggest. It is though we fear that it will be misinterpeted as a judgement of color.

I agree that we have been made with a wonderful palate of physical attributes and that each one should be celebrated. But in saying each one, we must recognize that fear, guilt and blame do not serve this purpose, (the underlying cause of racism), and be able to celebrate all cultures and skin colors. All societies in history have participated in the mistreatment of others to some degree. There are no societal saints.

We have all had the oportunity to express each culture and race experience through our Souls journey. And if that is not part of your belief system, then we have all experienced each other through the grace of God. It is a strong belief of mine that we need to recognize our inter-conectiveness, and celebrate our individual ablities to be expressions of God.

Sorry if this sounds too idealic, but, it is how I feel. I also know that there is fear in taking the leap of celebrating ourselves and others. For many , including me sometimes, it is just hard to 'wrap our brains around' in seeing all peoples as correct for thier path. Our experiences are integral to our Souls growth and when we out grow that need we move on to something new.

14. Antoinette...
Wed, Sep 22, 1999 - 11:51 AM/EST

I think this was what I was trying to get at in my orriginal post. That on first coming to Seattle, it was very difficult for me to wrap my mind around the fact that I would be living in the black community. That fear was not based on any negative feelings I had about black people, but the shear intimidation of being surrounded by strangers that might or might not have accepted me or the color of my skin. I think perhaps we all feel this to some extent (please feel free to correct me). Those were the feelings I had to get past on my journey...my assumptions about the way I would be treated. I think this is one of the things society has taught us..that we will not be accepted by people of another race, and I think this is one of the big barriers that stands between us and a true appreciation of color. But again, I could be off base, and this is just my humble opinion.

B

15. Whats' wrong with seeing color??????
Wed, Sep 22, 1999 - 1:35 PM/EST

My take on it is along with smoothtaps'. I love all shades of color and I should say I appreciate all aspects us people being different and special in their own way. Whats better than alluring green eyes with beautiful red hair and freckles, or sensual dark eyes with flowing thick jet-black hair or stunning hazel-brown eyes with the smoothest honey-brown skin. All of these are priceless in my eyes and "my colorblindness" allows me to see and enjoy every single one of them.

But everyone is not like me, and their colorblindness is shaped by their environment and experiences, but I think we all need a touch of colorblindness in this world.

16. i happen to be color blind.
Wed, Sep 22, 1999 - 11:56 PM/EST

Red-green. I can't see red flowers in green leafed trees. If i look close they seem kind of red-gray. My father is worse. If he's in a city where they reverse or put street light colors in a horizontal space (so it could go either way) he can easily get into accidents.

That's what i think color-blindness is. The other kind isn't real. It's just minimal tolerance at best and an insult at worst.

However anatomically skin color just isn't that important. Blacks sunburn too. Much more substantial is the cultural norms the person follows - everyone deserves to be met on their own ground to some extent. Forcing people to constantly speak to you on yours is essentially intolerant - and that is a big part of white culture. It has to do with power structures. You speak on my time, you speak the way i want, etc. But it is so universal that it is assumed. Like being served coffee all the time - people who like hot chocolate are belittled, unsupported and or marginalized. Just try hanging out with the boss after work with a hot chocolate. Or use a Mac instead of a Windows box....

17. addendum
Thu, Sep 23, 1999 - /EST
ethie'sgirl

Lots of good comments. I definitely fall on the "there shouldn't really be any such thing as color blindness" side of this issue. The claim of color blindness strikes me as phoniness, an uncomfortable sort of politically correct politeness, or actual acceptance of difference that's been poluted by worry about being politically INcorrect. I've tried, in vain, to explain this to my friends. They just can't seem to get it, and I've often wondered if they might not be right, if maybe *I'm* the one seeing this the wrong way. But I keep coming back to my uneasiness. Maybe I need to tell them how it sounds to me: their refusal to mention my color is like a tacit acknowledgement that my color is a negative and that to mention it would be to give someone a reason to dislike or reject me.

(Of course, wouldn't it be better for them to find out they're trying to fix me up with a bigot before they send me out on a date with him?!)

18. dealing with another's racism
Thu, Sep 23, 1999 - 2:21 PM/EST

now here's perhaps the toughest issue. It's easy to talk to the choir - how do people evolve from racism to unified? Confrontation or politeness.. when and how do people own their own change of heart?

19. Steven...
Thu, Sep 23, 1999 - 5:51 PM/EST

I believe it's a matter of using good judgement. I'm for nonconfrontation when at all possible. I lead my life trying very hard to provide an example for others to live by. I don't mean in caring what others think of me, but it being really important what I think of myself, and standing by the choices I've made in my life. I've never known that as much as I have since I've been a mother. Because now I know there is someone who WILL learn from the example I set. Now, I will fight for these choices by whatever means are at my disposal...but as my mother always said, "You catch more flies with sugar.."

I do understand though, that this is very much a woman's point of view--perhaps a Southern woman's point of view at that.

I guess what I am saying though is leading by example is the best way to make a change. That if you return hate for hate--I don't know, I suppose there are times when this is the only way, but I always think it is not the best.

B

20. harder for white people?
Sat, Sep 25, 1999 - 1:26 PM/EST

I wonder if this issue is harder for whites. When faced with racism i became sometimes very angry. Other times very sad. Either way i would then tend to become remote and those emotions would tend to smolder.I talked about this with a black co-worker who's appoach was very peaceful - she spoke about choosing your fights, and better long run choices. In a sense for whites discovering racism is very fresh and raw. For blacks they've gone through that already mostly.

But i think there's a male/female thing going on as well. Men are prone to and certainly encouraged to charge in and push around as a means of solving problems.

21. color sight-
Sat, Sep 25, 1999 - 9:59 PM/EST
antionette

I am out of town right now, so I have not been contributing much or staying updated. But, I have noticed an interesting change in my life. I seem to notice race and bi-racial couples more than ever before. I have noticed many, and I still do not have any negative feelings about it. Yet my perception truely has changed, and I am not sure how to explain it.

22. harder for white people??
Sun, Sep 26, 1999 - 1:32 AM/EST
ethie'sgirl

Steven, although I can see where you're coming from with the idea that the discovery of racism is fresh and raw for some white people, I feel I have to take issue with the implication that racism *isn't* fresh and raw for non-white people. No matter how many experiences I have, I am always shocked, and my feelings are always volatile.

23. steven...
Sun, Sep 26, 1999 - 2:04 AM/EST

When I first married my husband, and in the year following, I had to become a part of my husbands family. What this meant for me was coming to terms with these somewhat 'raw' feelings that came up in the beginning over other people's racist tendancies. Now this is not to say this was my first 'discovery' that racism existed. On the contrary, I knew for a fact that it was alive and well in my own family. However, this was the first time I had been on the 'other' side of it. I kind of think (and i mean no disrespect to anyone who is reading this) that before I married my husband, I could talk about how racism effected people, and don't get me wrong, I have always openly disagreed with the people in my family--and everywhere else who exibited racism. But it's different when you have to feel it as a personal attack. This is not to say I will ever know what my husband and daughter will face. My husband told me very early in our relationship that we had to just live our lives. That racism and prejudice are always cowardly reactions to fear, and we cannot come at them with cowardice. That we have to live our lives and get beyond it. He was telling me in so many words that he had always chosen his battles. No, I don't think racism is more difficult for whites. I have to agree with Ethie's girl on this one. Maybe though, it is more difficult for white people to talk about.

24. more difficult for white people
Sun, Sep 26, 1999 - 11:59 AM/EST

I appreciate that racist incidents can feel fresh and painful to minorities. Nor do i wish to put aside just anger.

I am just saying that in this discussion with my friend she was much more matter of fact about it while i was still fuming. In fact she kind of liked that i was fuming but she was also definately working to calm me down. My admiration of her increased greatly because i knew she wasn't just roling over but she wasn't baited either.

Part of this idea is about having to go through instance after instance. But part of this might also be about things generally getting alittle better so that a minority might go for longer periods without running into a racist incident, so that when it does happen - and it still will probably - it feels fresh because it hasn't been too long.... Another issue i can see relating is wounds that don't have time to heal - where incidents keep piling up which i'm sure happens in some circles. Every incident is just fresh salt in an open wound then.

Harder for white people? I guess that's phrased wrong. Responding to racist incidents to minorities is different for white people. Maybe that's better. But on the other hand it is also about our common response - anger, shock, disbeleif....

25. Colorblindness
Thu, Sep 30, 1999 - 3:26 PM/EST
james

There is a saying, I believe African in origin, which is "It's not what you call me; it's what I answer to." As a black male in my mid 50s I can recall various situation throughout my life when I have experienced or suspected slights that were atleast partially due to racial insensitivity or hostility. When I reflect upon those incidents I can't help but realize how much credibility I accorded and power I abdicated to the offending party by allowing their assessment of me to unduly influence how I felt about myself. As I have matured....and grown older, my self-image has been enhanced and my self-confidence and pride increased to the point where I find racially insensitive remarks to be a distasteful reflection upon the person uttering them. If they have a "problem" with me, it is their problem, not mine. Unless they present an immediate threat to me, I will not condescend to engage them other than to perhaps directly comment on their ignorance. This evolution has enabled me to be very comfortable in interracial relationships and to appreciate them as an opportunity to expand my interpersonal universe beyond the narrow confines of my ethnicity. I have also become more outspoken when I am around friends who make remarks that clearly evidence ethnic, religious, or sexual/sexual preference insensitivity. Years ago I would have said nothing or half-heartedly chuckled so as not to make anyone "uncomfortable."