Topic #2. White women/Black women
(Showing 1-30 of 30)

1. White women/Black women
Sun, Sep 19, 1999 - 5:44 AM/EST
demara

From personal observation, I have noted that most of the white women that I've known who have black husbands seem to have no close black women friends. I don't mean neighbors, co workers, or other casual friends, but really close friends. Is this true for you if you are in such a relationship? Has anyone else noticed this?

2. women friends
Sun, Sep 19, 1999 - 10:05 AM/EST

To demara: this may not relate at all since Im married to a white man but I have a women friend who is black. We started as coworkers & the friendship has just evolved. We are good buddies. I have recently moved so we are long distance buddies now. I miss her. You tend to find your soul mates in life--the color of your skin does not enter the picture in my opinion. Am I being naive? --kaylee

3. white/black women
Sun, Sep 19, 1999 - 8:03 PM/EST
debbie

I don't have any experience in this field but my view is that black women have a lot of competition in the work place and now in the dating place, too. I would feel frustrated. If the woman did not have a lot of confidence in herself, she could be intimidated.-debbie

4. Black women friends
Sun, Sep 19, 1999 - 10:55 PM/EST
bleyequeen

I can't really speak to having close friends of any race that I go places with or do things with outside of church and work and my children's activities. For the most part my social needs are met in those three areas. There are, however, several black women at church and a couple at work whom I feel very close to... close enough that I either do or would confide in them as they would or do in me. Someday I will have more time to build those relationships, but for now I am content with giving the greater part of my attention to my family. I will say to Debbie, though, that these women with whom I feel a closeness, are very strong, confident people, so you may have something there. Also, the fact that they are all extremely happy may be key, too.

5. white women/black women
Mon, Sep 20, 1999 - 7:10 AM/EST
criamama

I believe friendships develop through shared experiences and a "personal chemistry" between individuals regardless of race. There are individuals who quite simply don't have great numbers of "close" friends and who feel quite comfortable with only a few close friendships. Karen, from the series, is a good example.

6. black woman friends
Mon, Sep 20, 1999 - 11:11 AM/EST
bettina

very interesting. I don't think my mom (white woman married to a black man) has ever had black girl friends. But than again my moms closest friends are the 4 German women she came to this country with. Now the people who my parents hang out with are their neighbors who again, are all white..but I wouldn't call any of them my moms best friends, she doesn't really develop relationships like that with women.

7. girlfriends
Mon, Sep 20, 1999 - 1:29 PM/EST
shelli

For me friendships, with other women develop from similar interests and places where we are in our lives, rather than friendships based on skin color. I am very close with my black sister-in-law, as well as my latina sister-in-law. One of my closest and dearest friends is Filipina. The majority of other women I associate with are white, but that is because of things we have in common, such as our children and activities they are involved in, etc. My husband’s closest friend is white.

8. Suspicious
Mon, Sep 20, 1999 - 2:05 PM/EST

I havent paid much attention as to who white women who date black men associate with. I usually ignore them because I feel that the black man has something against black women.

In the series "Bill" commented that he initially pursued "Karen" because of the trophy aspect of dating a white women, like she was some sort of prize or something. This type of behavior can make white women feel as though they are thought of as better than other female races. This maybe another reason why black females tend to stray away from making friendships.

9. Friends
Mon, Sep 20, 1999 - 4:36 PM/EST

I agree with criamama - you make friends with

those who share commonalities, and some, like me

have a small intimate circle of friends, my other

friends are acquaintances. I'm just sorry there

are so few "non-whites", who live in my town.

There seems little opportunity to make friends who

come from another cultural background

10. friends
Mon, Sep 20, 1999 - 5:47 PM/EST
bettina

Kikko, you're probably right. A lot of black women might tend to stray away from making friendships with white women, for whatever reason. Do you have any white friends? If not, what keeps you from making any (unless your environment doesn't provide a melting pot of cultures of which to choose friends from)?

"I havent paid much attention as to who white women who date black men associate with. I usually ignore them...." - ouch! Ignore the the black man, or the white woman....or both?

11. White Women/Black Women
Mon, Sep 20, 1999 - 7:14 PM/EST
christing

At this point in my life, I do not have any black female friends. I have always worked for small companies, where the makeup was usually white and Christian. The times in my life when I have had female friends that are black were usually when I was involved with a black man who was close to his family and had a lot of black friends. When I look at a person, I do not see race, and I have not related differently to black women than to white women. My fiance (who is black)has mostly white friends, and therefore I have not exposure to black women, as I have with other boyfriends in the past. I would certainly welcome a friendship with a black woman for many reasons, but I do not have the opportunity at this time.

12. Black women friends
Tue, Sep 21, 1999 - 7:11 AM/EST
demara

The reason why I brought this up was that while watching the series, I saw how Karen had no black friends. I thought about my aunt(white) who had no black friends. I started thinking about different white women that I worked with who had black husbands but no black girlfriends. One particular coworker brought her daughter over to play with mine and began to question me about her daughter's hair. She couldn't seem to deal with it. I was glad to offer suggestions and to answer her questions for the child's benefit. This child was 10 years old. Why hadn't she found help before this? Didn't she ever have a black woman friend before? Why didn't she buy some black hair magazines or take her daughter to a black hair salon and observe and ask for advice. I've seen more than a few biracial children wear some strange hairstyles.

Hair is not so important, but having close black women friends could be an excellent resource for any white woman raising a biracial child. Caring friends of all sorts are important for children to be around and be a part of. Don't you think that if Cicily had been around more black women that her socialization skills may have been improved? her identity problems lessened? that Karen would be more educated about problems that her daughters would face? Doesn't every mother have a duty to network, seek out connections and sources, to make an effort to educate herself in the the things that her child is involved in?

13. mothers duty
Tue, Sep 21, 1999 - 10:02 AM/EST
bettina

I think it's the responsibility of both the parents (if you are raised by both parents) to educate their children of issues pertaining to both races. I think every father has the duty to network/seek out connections as well. I realize more and more when I think about it, that I am really lucky. My father buys me "Essence" magazine and "Black Hair" so I can find my own resources....if I choose, and my mom asks women whose hair she likes ..."who does your hair or what products do you use"...I'm constantly getting input equally from both sides about all sorts of issues.

14. Friends
Tue, Sep 21, 1999 - 10:05 AM/EST

Hi Bettina

In general I have few if any women friends, they would be associates at work probably. While in High School and college all of my close girlfriends were black. The only white "friends" I had were my roomates because I attended a predominately white college. This was a situation that was chosen for me, I didnt choose them as roomates. So I think I naturally became friends with those I felt more comfortable around and also those who I had more in common with.

Ive just always had experiences with "whites" where while you were talking with them they always talked as if they knew everything and like they had to correct you and inform all the time. With my "black" girlfriends I could relax and just talk as if we were equals. Im sure there are those who arent like this, but I have not met any.

When I mentioned that I ignore the interracial couple I say this because I feel the black man is sort of expecting black women to care that he is dating a white women, like we should be upset or jealous. So I ignore the whole situation because a lot of these relationships are for status symbol purposes.

15. friends
Tue, Sep 21, 1999 - 10:45 AM/EST
bettina

kikko-

I can see you'd probably feel more comfortable with your black girlfriends, you have more in common with them, deal with the same problems and share the same interests (ie: music, TV, movies). But the part where you feel you talk to each other as equals and don't feel that way when you talk to whites, might be an issue with yourself confidence. (I don't know you at all, these are just my thoughts) Sure there are plenty of people, no matter what color, who think they are better then others, but as a gerenalization to whites?.....I have a group of friends that I met in college who are from Silver Springs, MD and the area (I read your bio) most of which are white. These are some of my best girlfriends....their attitude is not even an ounce of what you describe. You haven't met any?....you need to get out more. (said in a jokking manner)

16. white women/black women
Wed, Sep 22, 1999 - 10:02 AM/EST
criamama

Demara, from watching the series, I have the impression that Karen is an individual that does not have many "close" friends outside of her family. I, also, have the impression that she is very close to her black in-laws, maybe closer than even to her own biological family. That's my impression.

Also, Living in the large apartment building in NYC would mean there were plenty of black families who were neighbors. Cecily could have had friends from many cultures. This was probably the case in her school as well. Cecily is an individual and she did and will continue to choose her friends from those people she feels most comfortable with and can share similiar interests.

17. Black women friends/Message to demara
Thu, Sep 23, 1999 - 12:18 PM/EST

demara, I can see you have some not too thinly disguised issues about race -- the judgemental statements against interracial couples, strange hair styles of biracial kids etc. You wouldn't appreciate it if someone said they've seen some strange hair styles of black kids would you? You seem to want to start an argument. If you want to go there, then be prepared to get it back without getting your feelings hurt. We can talk openly and honestly, but the playing field has to be even. Everyone else is trying to be real respectful and "politically correct" and you're still taking your digs. Is this the forum to vent your hostilities?

18. to jeb
Fri, Sep 24, 1999 - 5:09 AM/EST
demara

I am not attempting to be politically correct or trying to disguise anything. I don't disrespect others without a reason and even then I try to at least find some kind of common ground that I can deal with them in a peaceful manner. I am certainly not hostile. Yes, I have seen some strange hairstyles on some biracial children because I believe that their mothers were trying but were having difficulty in dealing with something that was very different to them. I had the same difficulty with my own child and searched for a solution. I had to go out of my own culture to do this. It does not offend me if someone says that they've seen some strange hairstyles on black kids. I'd have to agree because I see them everyday. My son, who is trying to grow dreds (his hair is silky and unkinky) is a good example.

Don't be so sensitive and ready to attack. That's what has caused so much racism in the world. If I say I'm uncomfortable with something that doesn't mean I am against it. If I state what I've noted in my life's experience, then maybe others can tell me that it's different where they live or within their life's experience. Maybe I will alter my opinions. At this stage in my life I am comfortable with my personal choices and with who I am. There is no hate in my heart.

19. Stop the debates
Fri, Sep 24, 1999 - 7:51 PM/EST

Bettina,

No I am very confident, I have just experienced a great number of whites who feel they are the authority on all types of topics, it's hard to find common ground with someone who feels they have to compete or debate with you about who knows more about the most mundane topics. It's very hard to find whites who interest me to tell you the truth. This a major reason why dating white men never worked out for me, they seemed too stuffy and always tried to be perfect. Just an observation. And I get out enough Bettina, thanks for the suggestion.

20. Just Curious, Kikko
Sun, Sep 26, 1999 - 7:45 PM/EST

Have you ever confronted any of the whites about

their competitive/patronizing attitude? I wonder

what they would say? I know what it's like

talking to my know-it-all brother who's always got

to be right. He'll openly admit that he thinks

he's always right, so I say my piece and then

usually just change topics when he gets into this

mode.

Women, though, are usually a bit more responsive

and sensitive. It would be an interesting

experiment to just name what's going on and see

what they do....

21. Not so easy
Mon, Sep 27, 1999 - 9:24 AM/EST

Hi BBC

It's not so easy telling someone they should not be themselves. I think this is just how they socialize by showing others how much they know about certain topics. Im not very keen on what whites talk about. But from my recent experience it all sounds mundane and superficial. I mean how many times can you talk about the different countries you've visited?

I am just realizing the vast differences in conversation since I am the only black female and second only black at my job site. I am just the type of person who likes to talk casual and carefree. I mean dont get me wrong I chat with my co-workers but I often feel exhausted and un satisfied with the outcome because it is a strain not to bond with those you work with. But it is a learning process.

So you have been raised in an all white neighborhood. Are your three boys from an interracial relationship? Is it by choice that you have little experience with other cultures? Do you feel it will affect your children's view of blacks?Do you have misconceptions about blacks that are the result of not knowing any? Sorry for all the questions but I am curious.

22. Reflection on
Mon, Sep 27, 1999 - 11:04 AM/EST
criamama

Kikko,

I am sorry that you have not been able to "cross the bridge" in your conversations with whites. There will, of course, be those people you meet with whom you have nothing in common and with whom you will never be able to converse freely with. This fact is true for all people, blk/blk, wht/wht, blk/wht, etc......

To generalize as you did in your last message does not seem progressive and only perpetuates those attitudes all of us are attempting to overcome. I read your message as "us" and "them"> Is this really where you're coming from?

23. Reflection on "Not so Easy"
Mon, Sep 27, 1999 - 11:07 AM/EST
criamama

Kikko,

I am sorry that you have not been able to "cross the bridge" in your conversations with whites. There will, of course, be those people you meet with whom you have nothing in common and with whom you will never be able to converse freely with. This fact is true for all people, blk/blk, wht/wht, blk/wht, etc......

To generalize, as you did in your last message, does not seem progressive and only perpetuates those attitudes all of us are attempting to overcome. I read your message as "us" and "them". Is this really where you're coming from?

24. Progressive
Mon, Sep 27, 1999 - 2:47 PM/EST

Oh blacks have tried to progress for some time now, all it takes is a majority to slow the progress of race relations.

If you hear us & them in my post you are probably right. How do we not become an us & them if we see race issues so differently? Predjudice and discrimination are issues that white america thinks are nonexistent today. Until society takes the blinders off there will be an "Us & Them". I'm just so tired of beating a dead horse because the black voice is so unheard in this country.

How do we progress if society treats the minority like they dont exist? I mean can you relate to this at all?

25. Kikko
Mon, Sep 27, 1999 - 8:37 PM/EST

Thanks so much for your curious questions. First,

I think you could be a great mirror to these women

by pointing out how you experience them. They may

not even know how they are coming across. Your

comments may be the invitation they need to talk

about something more meaningful. I don't take your

comments personally, though I will challenge you

to keep pushing to get beyond the us and them. I

personally enjoy finding commonalities and

building bridges.

So my background - I grew up outside of

Philadelphia in a white suburb. I can remember as

a four year old meeting a black man for the first

time. I was shocked that he looked so different

from me. When I asked my mother about it, she

told me that that was the natural color of his

skin, that we were different on the outside, but

the same on the inside. That answer seemed to

satisfy me completely, so I smiled at him and he

offered to tie my shoe. I wish more people had

this kind of "first memory".

I didn't have any black classmates through my

entire high school and college experience. My

husband is white, but born in Holland, which makes

him a bit different from the typical white

American. I would very much like to have a close

friend of another race. I did have a Filipino

roommate and I worked with two wonderful black

men, so I've had a few opportunities, but not

nearly enough. I worry that my children will not

have the chance to meet more people outside their

race because we have moved to another segregated

area. I try to teach them tolerance. My 12 year

old seems to understand what racism is - his

definition was "when you don't like someone simply

because they have a different color of skin than

you do."

I'll think about misconceptions and write more

later.

26. Misconceptions
Tue, Sep 28, 1999 - 8:54 PM/EST

I've been thinking about this and I think

misconceptions I have probably cross class lines,

rather than race lines. Most people I've worked

with or had personal contact with of another race

were of the same class and I really didn't feel

any discomfort. But I've had no contact with

innercity or poor neighborhood families. If I was

driving in a rough neighborhood, I'd lock my

doors, for me it seems a safety issue, but it

could be stereotyping on my part. I think about

the number of single moms living in poverty and

make assumptions that there are more black single

moms percentagewise than white single moms. I

wonder about absent black fathers. I've heard

about innercity youth who are poor but have fancy

cars and sharp clothes - this for me goes against

my personal values because of the materialism.

So, bottomline, I begin to wonder how much I would

find in common with the innercity poor - black or

any other color. So what do you think? Any food

for thought?

27. My Thoughts
Thu, Sep 30, 1999 - 8:46 AM/EST

I am quite sure you would have many things in common with poor innercity people. Money is not what makes you, it is your inner being that connects with other people that enables you to bond and grow. I think it is the perceptions of poor people that sway middleclass or upperclass from socializing with them. I have met many so called "poor" people who were poor in money but rich in spirit. I learned from them they learned from me, I have never been a materialistic person and I am quite liberal so a person's financial situation never bothered me. There are rich people who are sadistic and mean so class means nothing.

I dont wonder so much about absent fathers as much as people who stay together just for appearances. Many women are getting beat just so they wont have to be alone and be a single mom. Id rather be a single mom than get abused. Have you ever volunteered as a mentor in the innercity, like work at a girls club or community center? To get a hands on view of innercity life? When I was a member of the girls club years ago, there were several white women who were always there to help and teach, and these memories stay with me today.

28. Class Values
Thu, Sep 30, 1999 - 12:08 PM/EST

Ideally class shouldn't mean anything, people are

always human beings first, trying to live,

connect, grow. But as you worked with groups,

Kikko, did you notice any themes - differences in

values? Also, I agree that women should not stay

in abusive relationships, but I cant' imagine that

the majority of absent father situations are due

to women avoiding abuse...

When I was working with some teen moms in our own

area, I was amazed to discover that some of the

moms got pregnant by the same "Dads". It is often

older men who actually feel more manly for getting

these girls pregnant, but who don't step up to the

plate and take any financial or emotional

responsibility afterwards. I wonder whether it is

this kind of situation that runs through some of

the high rates of poor moms in the city as well.

Your suggestion for working with the innercity

girls club is a good one, but it's a two hour

commute, not practical. I'll have to look for

other ways.

29. absent Dads
Fri, Oct 1, 1999 - 11:23 PM/EST
debbie

I am one of those people that had a child, when I was a teenager and my boyfriend found out I was pregnant and left one week later. I think these men are cowards and don't want to face the music. I don't think what class their in matters. My choices were not good when it came to men.I can't go into details because it is very upsetting. All I can say is, when you have children PLEASE listen to your interself and think of your child first at all cost. If you are dating and have children be very careful. What you hear on the news can happen to anyone. All men are not bad but choose wisely. I found one 22 years ago and he is great.-Debbie

30. Black women/White women
Fri, Oct 8, 1999 - 2:46 PM/EST
arol

Hi, I know that today is the last day for discussions. I'm new to the group and decided to save my comments until I could assimilate them. I have so much to say in a condensed form:

Black women and white women have so much in common. Yet there are so many differences. I feel that nothing has really been accomplished here because the majority of the people in all of the posts that I have seen have been white females married to black men. I wish that there could have been more input from black women who have so much hurt in their hearts. This is too painful for many of us to discuss, because we are always judged negatively---particularly by black men.

White females, with all of your purported naivete, it could take years for you all to understand the impact that society has had and is having on black men and women. Not only are black men under great stress, but black women as well. Many of us are having to raise our children without the assistance of a strong loving black man. Many of our men have deserted us for "something better"---a white female. (That's not my opinion). That's probably why black women don't like to see bm/wf together. We have so many hurting stories to tell--negative comments, desertions. My friends and I----both black and white---- could write a book.

Racism has taken a subtle turn here. Not only are whites prejudiced, but black men as well. Some choose not to even look at, let alone date or marry black women. They find unwarranted excuses to desert us.

What about some of the snobbish mulatto children that many of you are raising? What is/are their black parent(s) teaching them or not teaching them?

White women, you have the best of both worlds! You can, with ease, glide into relationships with any black man-----regardless of your socioeconomic status, appearance or intelligence.

The truth be told: black men have different standards with which they behold black women vs. white women.