Topic #1. American Lovestories reactions
(Showing 1-34 of 34)

1. American Lovestories reactions
Mon, Sep 13, 1999 - 5:01 PM/EST
iris

Watching the first night of the series last night was an emotional experience for me, as so much of it mirrors my own life. The professional mother and musician father - being told you are "black" according to America's rules, but finding social acceptance with (for the most part) every ethnicity EXCEPT blacks. I am the same age as Cecily, and also found college to be something of a shock. As a bi-racial person who had snubbed her father's advice to go to a "Black" school, (because I thouhgt it woulod be too limiting), I did however, think that I would decide to pledge a black sorority - but when I went to the informational meetings, I found my fellow students (not sorority members) recommending: "You should join so-and-so sorority - because you're so light".

Needless to say, I did not pledge any sorority. I did join the marching band, which , to my knowledge, was, and remains, the most diverse student organization at the school. One other student, whom I had become friends with, and happened to be considerably darker-skinned than I am, felt comfortable enough with me to confide "You know, at first I didn't think you would want to be friends with me. " I was surprised and asked her why she thought that. Her response? "Because you're so light." I decided that if I was to be judged based on my skin color, why limit myself to just the black community? I may as well continue to live life as I always had (prior to college), talking to whomever I pleased, dating whoever I pleased. I ignored the obvious, but unwritten social system of self-segregation, and made friends of all different backgrounds.

Watching the show is interesting, since my family and the Wilson-Sims have various struggles in common. I look at the way they handled certain things, and the way my family did. Many segments are so painful I have to leave the room.

2. Re: American Lovestories reactions
Mon, Sep 13, 1999 - 5:48 PM/EST
thaduke

Damn. What you posted of your college life is powerful stuff indeed. I often dwell on what my girls will face when they're school age. We've already had the race-pigeonholing episodes. A hispanic man in a restaurant was staring and smiling at our middle one (at the time, two), asking my wife "is she mexican?" My wife answered no. When I returned to the table, he put two and two together, and turned away with a look on his face like he'd just been served a plateful of sour owl crap instead of his Denver Omelette. For the most part, though, we've had people with whom we associate and meet treat us as close to what I can describe as normal. If they're hiding their displeasure, they're doing a good job.

My thing is, if you don't like me...FINE. I can live with that (at one time in my life, it wasn't that way). As long as you treat me with common human decency and respect, you dont HAVE to like me. Would be nice if you did, strange that you don't, but not necessary for me to live my life. Just don't take it out on my family or kids.

I hope that my girls have the same atttitude that you and I seem to have...to live despite others analysis.

tha' Duke

3. Prejudism
Mon, Sep 13, 1999 - 7:18 PM/EST
davidt10

I have been raised in a prejudiced inviroment all my life and grew up thinking that black people were not human. This show has given me some new insites. I see now that black people are just people trying to survive and make a living like the rest of us. I do not think that people of different races should marry though since they are not the ones who have to put up with the prejudices of other people. Their children are the ones who will have to deal with it. There are also things in the Bible that make me think this way too such as the part about all the people gathering in one place when God told them to scatter through the earth and replenish it. They all stayed in one place and spoke one language. God made them where they couldn't understand each other's language so they would spread out and go their own ways.

4. David, I hear you, but...
Mon, Sep 13, 1999 - 8:06 PM/EST
thaduke

First of all, I want to commend you for venturing out of your comfort zone, and trying to understand that we're just slogging along in life, just like you, trying to do the best we can.

Secondly, just like kids one hundred years ago didn't have to deal with abortion on demand, AIDS, the nuclear bomb, and other modern scourges, doesn't mean that todays kids can't deal with prejudice. We've been dealing with it ever since one people recognized that another people were different. Life's tough: that doesn't mean that we should not get together interracially because we're afraid of how the kids will handle it. If you raise your kids in a centered, moral, strong way, while the slings and arrows may wound (as they do to ALL kids, just in areas that don't include interrace prejudice), they won't kill, and they'll be stronger in the long run.

As for the biblical aspects, I won't go into it too deeply, as this probably isn't the main focus of the forum. However (1) I (and you might agree) that Jesus came to end the law (the old codes and ways of doing things), not make more of it, and (2) if we're brothers and sister, can we truly uphold the Great Commission of loving one another when we say, "I love you...really...I do...just don't marry my people." ?

Not attacking you, David. I want to hear more about your upbringing. I think you bring some really deep experiences to the table that we can benefit from.

tha' duke

5. Part One
Mon, Sep 13, 1999 - 8:51 PM/EST
christina

Im sorry, but I was dissapointed by the show, I am a white woman, married to a black man, in "small town" USA, I do not live in New York, where it seems that alternative lifestyles as an everday way of life, both my husband and I work 40-hour jobs, my girls face differences on a daily basis. We have gone into local "Denny's" and had trouble being served, we have been treated with disrespect at the local "Kroger's" grocery store, this is everyday life in middle america, not out on the road doing the next "gig", while mom comes home and waits for Bill to cook dinner, I will continue to watch the series, but feel it in no way reflects true interracial relationships in middle America.

6. First Three Hours
Mon, Sep 13, 1999 - 10:05 PM/EST

I think it's probably good to remember that a white woman filmmaker who describes her show as an attempt to portray "the racial cauldron" in America is responsible for what is seen.

A bi-racial family trusted her to film them and present them. Whether their trust was entirely justified remains to be seen.

Also, consider the possibility that this couple were chosen to "demonstrate" this white woman's grasp of race in America. For example, did the family look over her shoulder during editing, did they have the right to approve or disapprove of what was made of a scene?

So far the show seems aimless to me.

7. From KY
Tue, Sep 14, 1999 - /EST
kermit

I like the show a lot. It showas real struggles of real people. If you have a problem with that it's YOUR problem not theirs. I am african american female brought about to accept people as people. My mom is light skinned, my step-mom could pass for white but never did. I was taught to love opera, I attend a predominantly white Christian church and live in the WHITE end of town. I am criticized by family and others for the choices I've made for myself and 4 children 31f 24m 20m 13f.

8. "I've Fallen.. & "It's New Year's..."
Tue, Sep 14, 1999 - 2:09 AM/EST
thaduke

Wow. The trip to Nigeria was anything but, as one young man put it, "paradise". It seems that racism and bigotry, like malaria, was no respector of persons. The AfAm youngsters made me actually ashamed for a while in their behavior towards Cecily. My prevarication-o-meter went off the scale while hearing Carlton's version of the confrontation.

Smitty: You're right on (and you'd probably have the background to assess this) that even the producers can help but inject their vision of America and race into the process. The most any filmaker/reporter/storyteller can do is present the whole cloth, with their special embellishments, but the whole cloth just the same. Let the reader/viewer make their own garment from what is present.

Tha' Duke

9. The Series is Difficult for Me in Another Way
Tue, Sep 14, 1999 - 3:06 AM/EST

I have been in a relationship with a man for two years and I would want to have his child except for what I see Cicily going through (and some previous knowledge of friends' experiences).

I am in Seattle, and when I showed up with my boyfriend's son (by a long ago relationship) for a court thing, the official types actually asked me with a straight face if I was the kid's Mom. They were actually cool when I said "no the Dad's girlfriend, and he lives with us".

Having lived in the east for off and on 20 years, I understand alot of the frustration. I also, although totally taken in by my boyfriend's family (geez they are Jamaican, Native American, some Italian somewhere - BUT viewed by society as Black) have been "uninvited" to some broader family parties based on being white.

I think that in Washington, DC where I have many dear friends of all colors, the vibe I got when I visited with my boyfriend was great with my family and good friends, but weird on both sides of the race line...

10. Trip to Nigeria
Tue, Sep 14, 1999 - 3:48 AM/EST
link

First of all I must say that the people of this planet are social creatures and most people feel comfortable around people that look as they do whether it is clothing or Arts or in social gatherings. Both cicely and carlton were wrong and could have resolved the problem in the bus in a better manner. First cicely should not have stood in his face with the angry tones in her voice. Most people don't like to feel challenged by anyone other than their parents. Being a mature woman you don't yell in anyones face unless you expect to fight! Carlton should have been a bite more humble and not told cicely that he was going to slap her, but simply ignored her and put on his walkman as he did after the incident. Their versions of the stories were both a little distorted. When cicely told her parents about the incident she made it seem as though she did no wrong. She was the innocent little girl that she wanted her family to see. "Being one sided about pain will never solve conflicts, either it be about race or lifestyles." Cicely's mom seems a bit insensitive towards her husband's and children's situations in life she acts as if the world is going to bow down to her because she is on this imaginary existance with the universe.

11. Rumble in the Jungle ....
Tue, Sep 14, 1999 - 11:20 AM/EST

Whoa now!

We never actually saw any "fight on the bus." For one reason or another the camcorder was OFF and what we got were slatherings of descriptions which were, in themselves, interesting but were only just that - remembered versions.

That section of the series reminded me of MTV's terribly exploitative "Real World" and "Road Rules" in which cynical producers create "households" of black, white, and mixed-race youngsters and then steer them into racial confrontations.

My question for Nigeria was "where are the adults?" Where is someone to guide these kids who, left to their own immature devices, fell into squabbling based mostly on self-involved and sophomoric views of race. Kids are naturally fearful and can be contentious, particularly when left to egg each other on in relative isolation.

Look for more such manipulation and/or errors of omission in the series. Sad.

12. Dealing with it
Tue, Sep 14, 1999 - 11:27 AM/EST
kimikiwi

I was the black female who hated seeing a black man with a white woman(mind you my grandmother was a white woman}. Questioning his motives for choosing her. I did not experience this type of dating until I moved from Detroit to Iowa for my last years of Highschool. Young black men were dating young white women and I was suppose to understand...something that did not give explanation. Black men put her on pedalstool in her face but behind her back her would not respect the relationship...pawning it off as "just something to use".

College was a different ball game. Black people on campus were scarce and white people where plentiful. Most black men came to UNL to play ball or run track and few where there for anything else. They came from small southern towns or predominately black areas. Dating a white woman was unheard of to most of the men in our class until football season started, then it was ok for a white woman to date a black man in Lincoln, Nebraska as long as he was on the football team. It was even ok for him to come to her home as long as he is a "starter". How could I be mad at her...she wants what every woman wants...security...love and respect. He wanted food, clothes, shelter and transportation. Dealing with any relationship other than his family what not the plan. His plans did not include the black woman because she could not provide or would not provide him with the things he wanted unless he gave her what she wanted. The easy answer for him was to make to easier choice that would allow him to get by with minimum complications. I saw white women carry these black men through 4 years of college financially, education and love. Then when they left and went pro they would tell them that " they could not take a white woman home with them".

Black men are aware of why we think the way we do about the relationship...some choose to share the truth with her and some deny the truth to themselves. We all just want to truly be loved unconditionally.

13. First two shows
Tue, Sep 14, 1999 - 1:14 PM/EST

I don't understand being disappointed in the shows--perhaps they do not portray life exactly as each of us experiences it--but it is the most honest, and uplifting view of interracial family life I have seen on tv. For once, it's not a tragedy!! My life is very similar to the Wilson-Sims family, because our professions are similar, but in our family, we raised his biracial son and my white son and daughter together. Each of us had to struggle to understand the others at times. Sometimes I felt the colors of our skins served as a reminder that we did NOT have the same experiences, and that we had to listen harder and longer to understand each other--something that I think would help any family!

14. The two programs, so far......
Tue, Sep 14, 1999 - 5:47 PM/EST
photographer

For me, the programs seemed to be close to the truth. To the bone, in Black speach. One of the things that the film givs us, that no one has spoken to, is the closeness that binds these people. The husband and wife are always up under one another. You can see it. Look at them sitting on the couch. I see the husband cooking all the time. So, we know, from inference (sp?) that this is a shared experience, too. Everyone is close. They cling when they kiss. The whole family does. The experience isn't about what one says, it's about what one does. This family loves itself. Does it get any better than that? These people have hung together for more than twenty years. That's better than sixty percent of America. Said another way, they are above average in all ways. These people and the story happens to be about Black and white. But we are fortunate to see such a success story. It's a pity so many of us would rather hang with the negative here. Hang with the positive, just let the negative go. I don't know about you, but sometimes I don't like that black bastard I see in the mirror in the morning. But, that's all I've got, so I get on with it. In the long run, I like myself. But I tend to be critical and HONEST!

15. Tempting
Tue, Sep 14, 1999 - 7:12 PM/EST

It is great to see a documentary like this. For me, ever since Fred Wiseman rang in the style with his mental hospital expose (he had predecesors, of course) in the 60's I would rather watch this kind of film than eat or sleep.

And, yes, I agree, "Photographer," (wow, your parents were really psychic!) wholeheartedly. It is wonderful to see the family, the fine young ladies, the evident durability of the relationship between dad and mom.

But THAT aspect of the 10 hours would take about 30 minutes to portray convincingly.

I am wondering about the family of four and the filmmaker and the product given to us over the span of the series. So far we have seen little meat on the bone. The daughter went to Colgate and had some confusing problems and eventually came home. Dad went on the road and had a bad performance setup and also skittered over the topic of "other women." The daughter went to Nigeria and had an inconclusive relationship with a Nigerian young man (what, in fact, WAS the nature of his exploitation or non-exploitation of her?). Then she had some complicated difficulties about race with her companions - but I did not SEE WITH MY EYES any slam-bang, solid, meat on tape about all that.

Yes, I saw stuff I could "read in to" with my own biases and prejudices. But I don't want that on this kind of film. I want the filmmaker and the subjects to hit me between the eyes and MAKE me think.

So, if you all all let me, I will enjoy the series and revel in being able to see documentary but I will also try to peek around the curtain from time to time. There is one there and it is the woman who made the series (as well as what the family let her see and did not let her see).

Onward to Day 3!

16. day 3
Wed, Sep 15, 1999 - 1:00 AM/EST
kermit

I am not a TV person but I am enjoying this series. There is a lot of positive. Through it all the daughters know their parents love them and only want what's best for them. This is hard to convey to some kids. The fact that theparents have been able to do this in spite of all the differences is a testament to their commitment to each other, the girls, and the all American family so many of us want desparately to have.

17. Cecily!
Wed, Sep 15, 1999 - 8:03 AM/EST
ottercat

I love Cecily. I want all my children, my friend's children, my nieces and nephews, EVERYBODY'S children, to have her sense of "I am".

Karen is such a strong woman. When she spoke of having to fight to keep Cecily at birth, I startled. That happened in Indiana to a friend of mine, even though she was married to the father of her children. Because her husband was black, HER MOTHER called the state and claimed she wanted to give her children up!

People are just so weird.

18. thoughts
Wed, Sep 15, 1999 - 8:22 AM/EST
davidt10

regardless of the positive or negative attitudes of people, I think this documentary was great and it really opened my eyes to a lot of things I was blind to. I think the family is closer than any I have ever known and it makes my heart jump for joy. I usually am not comfortable watching this sort of thing since I was brought up different and when it was announced I almost didn't. Since there was nothing else on tv at the time I decided to go ahead and see what it was about and I am glad I did.

19. David
Wed, Sep 15, 1999 - 10:32 AM/EST
ottercat

Not to be mean, sweetheart, but three things:

1.Get out your Old Testament and find out why Miriam and Aaron got leprosy. 2.I think we've spread out enough. Mission Babel accomplished. 3.Regardless of skin color, all of us here speak one language.

20. closeness, the ties that bind
Wed, Sep 15, 1999 - 12:59 PM/EST

One thing my husband and I both agreed on after last night's show, is that successful interracial marriages seem to be closerknit. I know that our friends of all colors and persuasions remark on the fact that he and are are affectionate and kind to eachother all the time. I think we've made an effort to do this, and that it has become a habit over the years, (and also we both just like to be that way) our adult children are the same. I believe that, although we don't feel that we've had a terrible amount of hassle from others over our marriage, that we face the world as a team, and we are prepared to defend ourselves should trouble arise. My husband said that I have learned to look around carefully when I'm out of the home, as Bill Sims spoke of doing, and that even when I'm by myself, I still have that element of caution, I "feel" like people don't exactly see me as white anymore, even though, when I'm alone, of course they do.

21. Hello
Thu, Sep 16, 1999 - 11:43 AM/EST

Where'd y-all go?

22. Wednesdays show
Thu, Sep 16, 1999 - 12:57 PM/EST
photographer

Last night's show that illustrated, defined, Bill's hassels was interesting. The male Black experience when you love a white woman here is unreal. How many of us would continue going to visit someone knowing you were going to have to do some jail time? This show is beginning to look like a good jazz piece sounds. We are being allowed to see and hear all the voices independently. We are getting a good feel for what's going on. It's interesting how Bill's sister has taken on music too. A town that has only a prison and steel mill as work opportunites would be crushing to almost anyone. It's easy to understand what happened to Bill's son. The poor kid never had a chance. And that town, even now, has places in it where Blacks will be stopped. Busts for DWB must be large there. More than anything else, this is a grand love story. Bill and his wife are exceptional people to have built what they have considering what they had to work with. We are all products of our rearing. Look at what they have made, starting with so little.

23. Ahem
Thu, Sep 16, 1999 - 2:27 PM/EST

Photographer .... "the poor kid never had a chance?"

You know youself 98% of the black kids his age in that county are not dope dealers and their backgrounds aren't much different from his.

C'mon.

24. love
Thu, Sep 16, 1999 - 3:29 PM/EST
ottercat

What stands out about last night's first half for was Bill's shaky admission that men and women are different beasts. Nature or nurture, we are, and if male & female can find common ground enough to live together as two/one, anybody should be able to. In theory.

Poor Bill. Poster child for assimilation mourning the loss of black culture. Hey, wasn't it his generation that abandoned their parents' family/church/community-centered lives for something...more?

25. Night #4
Thu, Sep 16, 1999 - 6:33 PM/EST
christina

Bill said something (clearly audible) that spoke volumes..... " people think that bi-racial families have no moral values".... AMEN!!! We just like all other families are proud when our children succeed, we hurt when our children are hurt, we laugh, we cry, we pay taxes, we clean up the "vomit" accidents in the car, we are EVERYMAN...the color of our skin in our homes may be many different colors, but under that skin, it bleeds red.....

26. Smitty
Thu, Sep 16, 1999 - 9:44 PM/EST
photographer

Perhaps the other kids didn't want as much, or didn't have the heart. It's a different world now. But that kid would be a great buddy in combat. One's world view is mollified by personal experience.

27. The Entire Series
Thu, Sep 16, 1999 - 11:26 PM/EST

I was so deeply moved by the entire series. I must admit that prior to recent events in my life (dating a man that was married to a white woman for 20 years and the viewing of this series), I looked at inter-racial relationships with disdain. I thought that black men or women who dated outside of their race had some type of self-hatred don't know why. I have a mother that dated men of different races and I have friends both male and female of different races. I have even dated men of different races (never seriously). I now look back on my thoughts and I feel ashamed. It was my own private racism. I hid it well until the tears rose up in my body this week. This was fanily, no differentthan mine. I pretended to be tolerant but I was not at all. I realize that love transcends color, religion and many other circumstances. I appreciated this family allowing me to share a small portion of their world. They have truly changed my life and how I plan to treat people (with compassion and empathy). Thank you PBS for lifting my mind to a higher level of thinking. God bless the entire family!!!!

28. Forget it
Fri, Sep 17, 1999 - 5:16 AM/EST
davidt10

I see that most of the people posting their thoughts here are black or at least part black. I have a few things to say and most of you are going to get upset by it. This will be the last post I do here since it seems to be all one sided any way so say what you will I won't be back.

Why is it that blacks can look to their roots and teach their children to do so and yet when white people do this they are made to feel as though they are doing something wrong? Why is it ok for blacks to be prejudice toward whites and yet when whites do it to blacks they are considered hate mongers. I am tired of being made to think that blacks are better than whites.

All I hear are blacks crying about how white men put them into slavery. Whites didn't put you into slavery, blacks did. White captains piloted the ships but they didn't round you up. Blacks did.

Now whites who don't know better feel sorry for blacks that they even try to mix and marry with them.

Stop your whining and be who you are and quit trying to get us and our children to be who you are. Let us be who we are.

Blacks also whine because they see a movie or program that only has whites in it but they seem to think it is ok for them to do it. I am so tired of a one sided thing with you people.

I am not a hate monger, I just want my kids to be proud of their heritage just the same as you want yours to be of theirs. Leave my children alone. I have taught them that it is wrong to marry blacks and always will. If you can't handle that then it is too bad. Call me what you will. I have the right to be who we are and not who you and other week whites want us to be.

29. Oh David T10
Fri, Sep 17, 1999 - 9:34 AM/EST

I guess someone taught you to hate and fear. Nothing in your post showed that you have learned a thing since. Your life, and that of your family will be the poorer for it, but there's nothing we in this group can do to help you.

30. Good Conclusion but ...
Fri, Sep 17, 1999 - 11:55 AM/EST

I hope the filmmaker knew that her final night was by far the strongest testimony to family strengths in which race plays an almost infinitesimal part.

The series raced out of the gate with a lot of material which led you to believe we would witness a bi-racial "family under fire."

What we actually saw was a snippet of the lives of four persons and their friends and relatives that seems to prove that most people do the right thing most of the time - not without pain and sadness, to be sure. But no one ever said this life was going to be a breeze.

I am sad to not have them back tonight.

31. david
Fri, Sep 17, 1999 - 12:43 PM/EST
simsow

It is not only about "blacks", heritage is where we come from, Japan, China, Indian, German, Itilian, Hawian, etc. etc.

There is nothing wrong in teaching your children their heritage, what is wrong is teaching your children that racism is OK! Letting them know how you feel (believe) is right, making them feel (believe) the way you do (I believe) is wrong.

If my child marries a Cuban, Indian, Black, Egyptian, Jewish, or Italian, I do not have to sleep in their bed, pay their taxes and most of all walk in their shoes and be judged!

I am WHITE! So what, must I think as you do if I were your sister? Would you wish me death because you do not like my choices? For you and your kind I pray to all the God's of this world for you and yours and hope everyone who believes in a power above us all will too!

My anger is showing and I will apologize for that, but we were here as a group not to debate our personal feelings at each other but what our views are regarding this family; The Wilson-Sims

The final show was refreshing; their closeness throughout was great; I feel that Bill and Karen did their best with Cicily and Chaney, but we as well do not get a second chance around with parenting. I would love to meet this family and speak with them. The experiences they have endured are encouraging for me. Hope everyone has learned something as I have.

32. David live your life
Fri, Sep 17, 1999 - 4:10 PM/EST
link

No one told the white people to come to the shores of Africa and if they wanted to they didn't have to give guns to the Africans to sell their people, they could have said no. Just because the history of the pain some whites caused is out in the open for everyone to see don't feel like black people are stopping you from being proud of your people. Sorry you don't like the truth. What you just said sounds like you are prejudging people by acts of others. I for one look at all shows black or white because when I was growing up all I saw was whites on shows, so it is no big deal to me how many black characters are in a series. But I guess the NAACP made a big deal out of it because those black actors have to eat.

33. To David
Fri, Sep 17, 1999 - 11:23 PM/EST
joan

Hope you're still reading, if you're not posting! As a fellow whitey (although there are those who would challenge THAT, since I'm Jewish)I just want to say that I've never gotten the message that blacks wanted "us" to know that they're better than us, just that they are every bit as good. I don't disagree with that at all.

We've been talking about prejudice here - that means assuming all kinds of things about people you don't even know just because their physical attributes make them recognizable as a member of some group to which you don't belong.

I confess my prejudice, and we all have some, is more about class values and religion. I wouldn't have a hard time about my child (if I had one) marrying someone of another color because of the color. I would have trouble if they raised their kids something other than Jewish or agnostic - only because they would be so unfamiliar to me - as in not family-like in familiarity of belief.

I still think your post is useful for promoting discussion and because it no doubt represents the attitudes of others out there, and those attitudes deserve to be heard and addressed.

34. Last Shot
Thu, Sep 30, 1999 - 9:10 PM/EST
photographer

I often think about this series of evenings. That was fine stuff. I can't remember ever seeing such a positive family portrait. It wasn't a story of a black man and his family. It was a contempory American family keeping on keeping on. Thanks, it was definetly beyond entertainment!